Arroyo Grande teacher takes students to nude beach

March 2, 2010

By KAREN VELIE

An Arroyo Grande High School photography teacher allegedly took four students on an unapproved field trip to a local nude beach, and now some parents are upset.

“I think it was bizarre,” said one parent who asked to remain anonymous because of her daughter’s discomfort with the situation. “It was not appropriate.”

While some of the teenage girls’ parents had signed broad waivers allowing photography teacher Allen Fraser to take their children off campus for photo taking, some had not signed the releases.

On Feb. 17, Fraser asked four of his first and second period students to accompany him to Pirates Cove, a nude beach with a reputation as a hook-up spot for homosexuals. Fraser drove two of the girls to the beach in his car and two others followed in their own car, according to parents.

When they arrived at the beach, the girls were instructed to shoot photos.

Currently, a lawsuit filed by San Luis Obispo Sheriff’s Deputy John Franklin claims that, because of a brush with a masturbating homosexual he encountered at Pirates Cove during an undercover sting operation, he suffers from mental and emotional distress.

Arroyo Grande High School Principal Ryan Pinkerton told CalCoastNews he was unaware of the teacher’s excursion to Pirates Cove.

“Just going there is inappropriate,” Pinkerton said.

Pinkerton had said he would look into the issue and respond. However, his staff then forwarded all requests for comment to the district office. Officials at the Lucia Mar School District were unavailable for comment.


202 Comments

  1. Janster123 says:

    A teacher has no business taking any students to a nude beach. If this photography teacher wanted ocean/nature pictures, there are plenty of other places to go. This teacher obviously lacks common sense, and I suggest the administration has done a poor job watching over him if the guy was allowed to plan all of this and no one knew about it. Further, this didn’t happen overnight. I guarantee, this guy has evolved to the point where he felt comfortable and brave enough to take these kids to the nude beach. Where is the principal? Where is the administration? Where is the district office, the school board…..Come on folks…..start doing your jobs….it’s our kids, and everyone’s future that you are toying with.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 12

    • carsopolus says:

      You’re late and you’re wrong.

      That’s why this story shouldn’t even be on the site anymore. It never should have been here in the first place, really, but I’ve already gotten into that.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  2. Lukenelson says:

    So this isn’t a chat room eh? lol What the hell do you call it then?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7

    • Moderator says:

      We at CCN expect relevant,civil, on topic discussion from our invited guests. thanks.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 11

  3. Moderator says:

    Sorry, but many comments have disappeared, this is a news source not a chat room, please reflect on the relevance of your comment before posting. thank you.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 27

    • agmom says:

      Thank you moderator for having us all focus….I would like to add my last comment to this article…Good job to everyone out there who has informed all the parents and taxpayers to this issue….Sad to say that if you look at the next AGHS board agenda mtg. will this issue be on it? Probably that’s why it has come to this…the school just says, “It’s a personnel issue”.This is huge to anyone who has kids to take a look at our system and most of all our kids teachers. Nobody out there wants anyone to get fired,or you kids out there, quit pointing fingers and take a look at your role models…not a good choice Mr. Frasier, hope you have learned from this as we all do in life learn from our mistakes……..

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 25

  4. carsopolus says:

    I’m going to ask this again because I am truly curious: Why did the mother of the uncomfortable girl go straight to an online news source rather than Mr. Fraser or Mr. Pinkerton?

    Considering the lack of seriousness in this “issue”, it seems reasonable that a conversation with Mr. Fraser would have rid the mother of all discomfort and an article concerning the situation would be obviously absurd. Clearing up the situation would have been more efficient, less dramatic, more simple, more mature, possibly more successful, and far more beneficial for the education of Mr. Fraser’s photography students, had the mother approached the teacher initially.

    My only theories are that she strongly detests Mr. Fraser and wants to damage his reputation, she is somehow of familial, friendly, or professional relation to Karen Velie and wanted to give her a “scoop” for the paper, or she was bored and craving some drama.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 31 Thumb down 15

    • agmom says:

      carsopolus..did you ever think that maybe parents have in the past tried to go to the teachers and the principals AND NOTHING GETS DONE OR LOOKED INTO? The school has ALWAYS tried to hide stuff like this, get a clue….going to the media gets the issue delt with in a timely manner…not always, but in this case, the school wants to put this under the carpet and not discuss it….as if it never happened…the parents and citizens need to know that this behavior is going on and where their tax money is going to…as for me I’m tired to seeing bond money going to the school and seeing admin. getting new offices and my kids get nothing…they can’t even get a teacher with good judgement for goodness sake!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 25

      • carsopolus says:

        Don’t let your cynicism prevent you from being reasonable. How many school controversies has your daughter been involved in that elicited unproductive responses from school faculty? It seems as if you have experienced enough negative and unsuccessful exchanges to have lost all faith in conversing civilly with teachers, and if that is the case, I’m surprised. How can one so pessimistic about issues being resolved by teachers be so optimistic in sending their child to be taught by them five days out of the week? Either you overreacted or you have been shamefully hardened by past failures of society. The point is you should have talked to Fraser. He’s not just a dissociated grump coming to school every day just to get a paycheck. He cares and would have listened to your worries, and you had no reason to believe otherwise.

        They can’t even get a teacher with good judgment? For one thing, you’re irresponsibly basing your entire opinion of this teacher based on this one mistake. Do you truly believe you can determine the reasonability of a person based on one example? An example polluted by an article void of important facts and saturated with innuendo? And secondly, your statement envelops all teachers at Arroyo Grande High School, which means you are irrationally generalizing based upon the falsehood of this reporting. Not only does your story manage to destroy agmom’s opinion of Mr. Fraser, Miss Velie, but it somehow even scarred the reputation of every other teacher on campus. I don’t even know what to say…That’s just downright incredible.

        If you’re so resentful against the ways the California Education system uses your tax money, I suggest a life of hermitage. Or better yet, active involvement in how the money is used. And by active involvement, I don’t mean bitterly commenting an article on a small website.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 27 Thumb down 8

        • Cindy says:

          Guess what Mr, Mrs or Miss Carsopolus, One of the students say’s that she did tell Fraser that she didn’t think she was comfortable going to Pirates Cove because it was a nude beach and he ignored her. Of course you wouldn’t know that because the person who posted today isn’t even a student in his class.

          agmom, I would just ignore this person. There are many different stories surrounding the facts of this outing. Some of the students showed up very late if at all. Others were down on the beach, Fraser has no control over this class. The principal took appropriate action and suspended him.

          The moderator will probably delete this post because he has an opinion on this story.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 22

          • zaphod says:

            I dunno about the moderators but I think carsopolis has been right on the money from her first comment, boy howdy did she rattle Cindy’s cage!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 8

          • carsopolus says:

            Your allegation has absolutely no merit. I have been honest, open, and detailed in every comment that I left. I have not been misleading in any respect, nor have I tried to deceive you. I’m not using circular logic and no one has followed the course of my reason and pointed out any holes or inconsistencies. The only reason you doubt my age, education, and whether or not I’m even in Mr. Fraser’s first and second period class is because I use big words? Shame on you. That’s preposterous, absurd, ridiculous, outrageous, ignorant, irresponsible, and pathetic. Instead of considering my words even for a second as the truth, you’re only focusing on who I am. I knew as a student and a teenager that if I wanted to stand up for my teacher and make sure the truth is heard, I would need to be logical, thorough, and grammatically correct, lest I be ridiculed and thereby ignored by the adult readers and commenters. I spent too much time thinking about this entire situation, proofreading, and looking words up in the dictionary that I was unsure about to be ignored. Some might think that’s a waste of time, but I’m expanding my vocabulary and standing up for what’s right, so I don’t mind. To my dismay, Cindy, you have made my plan backfire. Usually it’s a good thing to make an opponent’s plan of action backfire, but is it here? Maybe if I said things like ‘LOL’ or ‘OMG’, you would believe me. Maybe if I spelled things wrong or capitalized my entire comments you would think it was an angst-and-hormone-fueled rant that could only come from the mind of a pissy teenager. You resent me because you think I’m a liar (although you have no proof), yet you do not accept my offer to provide evidence. You’re either afraid of being wrong and having to apologize, intimidated, or you’re just really, really ignorant. Whatever the case, I would be really, really embarrassed of myself if I were you.

            What is your proof that this girl voiced her discomfort in the situation? It’s not in the article. Either you’re withholding information (whether because it is fabricated or unreliable) or you’re just making it up. Mr. Fraser asked if we were okay with it and no one said anything. That’s the truth. I never heard anyone object, and if they had done so privately, not only would it have been inaudible for me, but Mr. Fraser would not merely shove her away, ignore her. He’s not that kind of teacher.

            There is one story of what happened that day. You are misinterpreting information. No students showed up late. We all arrived there within ten minutes of each other. We all stood there as a group and made sure everyone was present, and then Mr. Fraser gave out cameras to the students who did not bring their own. You have no evidence to support that students were at the beach.

            I suggest readers ignore Cindy’s comments considering pretty much every allegation she makes has no proof or has “proof” that is purely speculation. Shooooooooooot.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 10

            • carsopolus says:

              I’m wasting my time offering dignified responses when you would more readily accept replies from what you believe the stereotypical representation of what a teenager these days is. Okay, I’ll play your game, Cindy.

              OK DIS IS RIDIKULUS DOGG mr fraesr is a COOL GUY he my fave teacher for my hole life and he so great. that day @ pirats cove we went their to just take piktures of perty things anf the ocean. i been riting angry posts in my MYSPACE all day so take that haters yeahhh im so maddd! yall are just worrried parents i undersand but u gotta know wer not babies no moree! we can think for ourselfs, we are ADULTS! okkk??? i got a f in english lol but i got a a PLUS in defending my teacher u know what im saying?? okay omg this so STUpid

              Do you believe me now?

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 7

              • carsopolus says:

                Oops.

                *I’m wasting my time offering dignified responses when you would more readily accept replies from what you believe the stereotypical representation of a teenager these days is.

                Or, you would readily accept replies from a writer that most obviously displays the characteristics of that stereotypical teenager trapped in your schema.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6

        • agmom says:

          I don’t have a daughter…why do you keep saying that…I have sons!

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 14

  5. Moderator says:

    So sorry that some comments have been ‘deleted’, mostly trollish noise, derails and debris. Please focus your comments on the story instead of other posters. thank you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 21

  6. hotdog says:

    To the students who haven’t used the best grammar/spelling etc, and those who have criticized them.

    At least one critical writer then used confusing and improper English in a later posting after leaning on a student writer for using bad form. I find the postings from the students to be generally much more illuminating and mature than those from the naysayers, and often more literate. And of course they are not imprisoned by the fear and hate mongering of some ‘adults’. I’m proud of them, despite a few typos and I applaud their passion.

    This site has long been plagued with lousy punctuation, bad spelling and foul language by ‘adults’. Those are often lazy people who don’t even respect themselves; they write junk, don’t check their work and perhaps have little knowledge of their native language. So to lean on the students at this time of high anxiety for a few lapses of writing ability is the height of hypocrisy and stonewalling. Let’s stick to what matters.

    Pirate’s Cove is not a high crime area; the so-called gay people sometimes frequent an area out of sight and sound of the parking lot and beach. There is almost no way the teacher could have known about the few ‘incidents’ there. The area is beautiful and unique; the students supposedly chose it for their photo target that day. Maybe school procedures are lax and maybe the teacher did not follow some of the procedures. Nudity, gay people, crime-all non-issues here. To me all that matters is just by what standards and under what conditions are students leaving school during normal hours. Suspending the teacher is ridiculous-they could have just said ‘no more field trips’ until we clear this up. I suspect the school is at fault, not the teacher. We’ll see…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 11

    • JordanJ says:

      Well you seem to know where it’s all happening. If it’s not in the parking lot or on the beach, where is it? In the men’s room, cave and bushes? Does that make it any better? It’s bad enough that the county has had to dispatch undercover deputies to cull the problem, so it is a problem.
      As for those people who consider these concerns to be nothing but gay slander, I’ve just got to shake my head and wonder about you. In the mean time, I’ll protect my family from these “creeps”. Yes it’s creepy to think someone is hiding in the bushes and masturbating or bonking their buddies. I’ve seen the feces soiled trash left behind.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 14

      • hotdog says:

        Jordan3, you certainly have some valid points. But of course the county (Sheriff) has little credibility around here (just look at the campaign statements of the establishment cops running for the sheriff job, even they say change is needed). Sending out deputies to catch someone masturbating in the bushes is interesting-has anyone sent anyone to arrest Jay Miller or his crooked daughter or that fat creep Gearhead for stealing over $125,000,000 from local seniors? NO.
        Spending our tax money hounding a disenfranchised element of our society is creepy to me.
        After going to the Cove for many years I heard that there was a ‘gay’ area off the edge of the parking lot and way down the side of the cliff. During my many trips and even looking I never saw anyone coming or going from that area. I even looked over the edge sometimes and never could see or hear anything other than nature. Now all my info is years old, and I plan to go down there to see about all the ‘waste’ you and others report. I have even been in the cave, and never seen anything but litter left by supposedly hetero slobs who couldn’t drag their bottles and cans out.

        If our society ever gets it right and welcomes all our citizens into it then perhaps gay people won’t have to have their ‘own spot’ and hide from ‘regular people’. None of the weird stuff you report is allowed on the beach by the people there; just regular folks with kids and dogs, jobs and schoolwork. I even met a DA there onetime. Big deal.

        There is no relationship when discussing morality or nudity. In fact the nudity at the Cove almost kills the raging hormones of people, clothing does a lot more than add color and empty our pockets. It forms, hides and compliments the often dumpy human body; no one should ever go to the Cove if they seek titillation-they would be disappointed.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

        • cheseburger says:

          I like your point, it’s amazing what happens when the old magic push up bra comes off, a sexy bathing suit is far more provocative at times, then a naked woman and leaves something to be desired, a means of taking it off, at the appropriate time and place, of course!
          As far as the spelling and writing, I think the kids are winning in common sense category, spelling will come later, this just popped into mind, this article will make more teens visit this spot of intrigue, after school and on weekends then ever before! This place has not been placed on the over eighteen visitation list, by any law enforcement agency, and the SLO Sheriffs probably still ride their jet skis, while they sip a few cold ones there. My bet, there is more law enforcement there on any given hot day, then at the neighboring Avila Beach.
          This is an intense issue and we all need to lighten up, when Law Enforcement say’s publicly posting signs that the beach is unsafe because of homosexual activity, similar to the signs at Avila that say Confirmed Shark Attack, then I will and only then will I concede that it is a bad place to view the sights from, we fear dark alleys and men in overcoats, do we all fear naked people who cannot conceal a weapon, to the same degree, this is paranoid.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

        • slojo says:

          Hotdog…..you say…”If our society ever gets it right and welcomes all our citizens into it then perhaps gay people won’t have to have their ‘own spot’ and hide from ‘regular people’.” Most of this society does welcome gay people. What society tends to not accept is weird people. People, gay or straight, naked or clothed, who perform lewd acts in public are weird. Now if you want these weird people to have thier “own spot” i totally agree with you. I just don’t want it at Pirates Cove.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3

    • agmom says:

      All I know is that I hope this article doesn’t die! Thank You Karen for taking this article to all of us that live here. What an eyeopener! I guess kids are taught something else other than reading, writing and arithmatic. Keep an ear and eye on your kids guys…I would like to know as a parent, what will happen to Mr. Fraser down the road; maybe we should all go to the board mtgs. and ask “What up” with your teachings and teachers, or “Do you all even monitor our kids, Mr. Pinkerton? Is this where our tax money is going?” Or wait, let’s pay for teachers not to get laid off and have a Saturday when kids can go and swim!! (Read the Telegram Tribune in today’s headline)

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 15

      • Vagabond says:

        Tax money? is that the measure of the education of America? What ever happened to learning?
        Are you only interested in the maximum safety at any cost? Or are you willing to embrace an uncertain future.
        I say ask the ones that will live it.
        Read those posts, and understand.

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 4

  7. FlamboyantGay says:

    I would expect this kind of response from teenagers, not adults.

    Looks like the times have changed and that young adults are WAY more mature.

    Minorities are taking over the “majority”

    We wouldn’t want something bad to happen to any of you, right?

    More specifically, we wouldn’t want anything bad to happen to this website, right?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10

    • Cindy says:

      “More specifically, we wouldn’t want anything bad to happen to this website, right?”
      Hey Mr Flamboyant, is that a threat?

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 10

    • hotdog says:

      I’m curious, like Cindy, what you mean. If the site is wrong on this issue that will not be a big deal, they have always been right and one miss won’t matter. Anyone can see from my postings I am a fierce defender of the Cove, gays, the teacher and the students-based on what I’ve heard so far. But I am a fiercer defender of this site and the good it does our community by bringing issues to our table-often hidden by the ‘authorities’ or neglected by the regular press.

      Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 10

      • Cindy says:

        hotdog, I am curious what Flamboyant means, I don’t think he is talking about “something bad happening to this site” in the context that you suggest. Some of these kids have already made private threats not only to this site but to other students (just ask the school board). Frankly I don’t see anything in this story that is incorrect. Perhaps it is missing some facts but the facts that are there are correct.
        Perhaps you don’t think the Cove deserves the reputation that has erupted particularly over a masturbating priest and a gold digging deputy, maybe your right, regardless, the Cove is a nude beach, titillating or not, it’s no place for high school students on a class assignment, agreed?

        Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

        • carsopolus says:

          A fact is a true, accurate piece of information. Absence of facts is absence of truth. Because this article lacks vital pieces of information, it leads the readers to dangerous, and very wrong, conclusions. If that’s the type of reporting you want to do, that’s your prerogative, Ms. Velie, but I can’t help but lose respect for you and question your professionalism.

          Mr. Fraser did go to the beach with a few girls, but the article fails to mention that there were about sixteen more female and male students in attendance as well. I was in the first and second period group that went to Pirate’s Cove and every single student from those two periods went to the same place. I’m almost positive that no girls went out on their own. We tend to photograph in pairs or groups. Mr. Fraser didn’t just ask these four girls to go to the nude beach with him like, “Hey, girls, you wanna go to a nude beach with me?” No, this was a class decision. This partial reporting is like saying “The man held the young girl his van for five hours.” I’m sure anyone who reads that will have a negative reaction. It sounds as if the man has pedophiliac motives and the girl was in captivity, but if more details are included, you will find that the man is the father, his wife and sons were in the car also, and she was not allowed to leave because they were on a roadtrip and she would die if she just jumped out of the van. This example shows the importance of including all details to convey the truth, and as a news source, that should be your main priority.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 6

          • agmom says:

            AGAIN, Mr. Frasier DID go to the site. PERIOD….AND you all followed..PERIOD..Not a good choice. You all admit it! As I said earlier, Mr. Frasier DOESN’T normally go with the kids, he normally says behind..why did he go on this trip?

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 13

            • carsopolus says:

              I’ve already explained the difference between this shoot and the other days, but I’ll go into more detail if you really don’t understand.

              This day at Pirate’s Cove was a special occasion. This is only the third shoot that we have done as a class. The class is about enhancing each individual’s skills in photography. We study, we practice, we learn over time and develop our own styles and follow our own interests. As a teacher, Mr. Fraser cherishes the opportunity to see his teaching come to life. As students, we like to see the work of our peers. That is why going somewhere as a group with our instructor is a valuable learning experience. This wasn’t some sick plan conjured by Fraser to go with us somewhere, find a student who ventured alone and take advantage of that student. That’s what I assume must be your fear considering there is absolutely no problem with a photography teacher accompanying his photography students on a photography trip. I understand and applaud your concern for the safety of your daughter, but this is the wrong situation and Mr. Fraser is the wrong man of whom to be wary.

              Now, normal procedure is that Fraser gives us a shooting assignment. In the past these have been portraits, color, documentary, composition, things like that. Because there are only something like six cameras and sixteen students, we are put into groups and each group gets a specific day to sign out a camera and go off campus, or on campus if they choose, to shoot. Obviously if only one group, of about four students, is able to shoot and leave daily, that means that Fraser has to stay behind and help the other students. Your underestimating teenagers may be what is making this so difficult for you to grasp. He doesn’t need to go with us on every shooting adventure.

              To sum it up, Fraser went on this trip because it was a group shot and it is not logical for sixteen students to revel in the joy of photography while the teacher sits in an empty classroom. Surely you don’t expect a class portraying the beauty of the world to learn entirely within the confines of a classroom. Variation in education is good for the brain.

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5

        • hotdog says:

          Cindy,
          I didn’t suggest anything, you did by asking if the comment was a ‘threat’. I simply said I admire this site.

          I would agree if this were a weekend day in the summer, instead of a cold day in the winter when the motive and result were surely an effort to enjoy the natural beauty of the environs, rather than naked bodies.

          One concept none of us has explored is the maturity and advanced worldliness of teenagers these days over older folks. I could give many examples but I think we all know-sexual mores, foul language-we all hope to shield our young-uns from such things. Not a chance. They know more than their folks do, they’ve probably seen and heard it all from their peers, TV, the net, movies-our culture is riddled with intense sensory assault of every type. To presume nudity, exposure to a gay person or environment, or even a criminal situation would somehow shock them is ludicrous. They are so far advanced in nearly all respects (just look at their posts) it is hopeless to protect them from the issues of society.

          In fact, all the polls indicate our youth are amazed with our homophobia (Prop hate, oops, 8). So, though I would not throw them into a nude beach willy nilly I think the conditions make that a non issue in this case.

          Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

          • Cindy says:

            hotdog, not all teenagers mature at the same rate. Some kids are more sheltered than others. Not all parents would agree with you and they have every right to expect that their children are where they are supposed to be and not out at Pirates Cove. Not all these students had permission slips to even be off campus.
            I have looked at these posts and I have to say that they range from very immature, highly emotional, hormone raging kids who can’t formulate a clear idea of what the issues even are about, all the way to an adult who is posting as a teenager. There have been very solid contentions related here as to why some parents are upset.
            The idea that it was OK to go to a nude beach because it was cold out is funny, it really is. Many the school board should write that one into the rules!!

            Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 13

            • carsopolus says:

              I hope you’re not referring to me as the “adult who is posting as a teenager.”

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

            • carsopolus says:

              “The idea that it was OK to go to a nude beach because it was cold out is funny, it really is. Many the school board should write that one into the rules!!”

              Are we so desperate for order by law that we disregard our own common sense? I’m sure the number of nudists who enjoy gallivanting freely on the morning of a winter day is much smaller than your paranoid psychosis is leading you to believe. It’s as simple as having the good thought to choose to cross a street when there are no cars coming, or burglarize a home when the owners are away: the danger previously causing delay is not present currently, it is safe to proceed.

              You know the old saying, ‘When the nudists are away, the photography students will play.’ I hear that all the time…

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

              • Cindy says:

                Well Mrs., Ms or Miss carsopolus, I suggest that you run this pitch by the school board and come back and tell us all what they had to say.
                Oh yes, stop by and try it on with the PTA while your at it. I suspect you will find that we are all suffering from the same form of what you so arrogantly call paranoid psychosis.
                In the mean time, Pirates Cove is and will be off limits for high school students during school hours, of that I’m certain.

                Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 11

                • carsopolus says:

                  Okay, now I know for sure that you think I’m the adult posting as a teenager. Why do you think that? Because it’s common for adults to go on comment boards and pretend to be students and defend beloved teachers they don’t even have just for kicks and giggles? If you read any of my comments, which I’m sure you have, you would know that by my word I cannot be a Mr. or a Mrs. If you want to ignore the truth as it is, which you do considering your acceptance of this atrocious article, then so be it. I can’t change your mind. I can’t force you to discuss something as a mature adult. The desire must be in you.

                  You wanna meet some time, Cindy? I’ll bring my birth certificate, my drivers license, my school ID, my mom if you want. Sound good? Probably not, right? Because if you knew for a fact that I am an 18 year old senior at AGHS you wouldn’t have anything to patronize me over, would you? Hell, traditional manners dictate that you might have to…gasp….respect me or something. Oh nooo, can’t have that happening.

                  Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

            • hotdog says:

              Here is what I have so far. The classes voted or decided to go to Pirate’s Cove area to take photos of the natural environment (the article reported the teacher suggested the cove, the students say THEY decided the destination). While assembling in the parking lot the students, according to how they do these excursions, formed up in twos or threes to wander around and take their photos. If there were 16 to 20 students there (according to many who posted here, whereas the article indicated the teacher only took four girls there) how could the teacher know or prevent a few of them wandering to the beach area? Photo opportunities abound in the parking lot, the cliffs and the beach. One or more of the students willingly went on this field trip and then complained later on, for the only reason they went to the Cove-NOT because something untoward happened there. So why did they go in the first place? Didn’t they vote or have a chance to voice their apprehension in the class room beforehand? Did they even go onto the beach? I wonder if anyone with a brain is looking into this, and finding the facts. Simply asking people what they and others did is not enough, specifics and details are necessary to separate the truth from the bull. I imagine finding out would take a couple hours of questioning of all parties and the truth would be before us. I wonder if anyone is doing that, what we have now is a bunch of armchair cowboys spouting off.

              The class either decided to go there-or not.
              The teacher either took only four girls there-or not.
              The teacher followed normally accepted procedures-or not.
              Pirate’s Cove is a hotbed of deviant perverts-or not.
              The teacher had a reasonable expectation to believe he might expose innocent little teenies to nude sunbathers on the morning of a cool winter day-or not.
              Who can determine the results of my little quiz?

              Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

              • carsopolus says:

                I’ll take a shot, hotdog.

                -The class decided to go there. Mr. Fraser asked where we wanted to go for the group shoot. Students suggested a variety of areas, and because of the beauty and the fact that there is no other place on the Central Coast like it (contrary to uncommon, ignorant belief, not all pieces of the coast look the same), we settled on Pirate’s Cove. No student made an objection.
                -The teacher did NOT only take four girls. The photography class periods one and two have about sixteen students in all and every single one met at Pirate’s Cove that morning.
                -The teacher followed normally accepted procedures. We were required to sign a permission slip at the beginning of each semester that alllowed us to go off campus. The only things that would have stopped us from going to Pirate’s Cove that day would have been the daughter telling her parents the some time before we went (because this was not a spontaneous decision, we planned it out at least a day before) or if the daughter had the discernment a junior or senior in high school should have to voice her discomfort.
                -I’m not sure how to address this one, I don’t have the proper statistics of crime at Pirate’s Cove or the numbers to see if regular folk seeking the beauty of nature go to Pirate’s Cove more than the perverts or what. I can only share my own personal experience. I have gone to Pirate’s Cove numerous times, mostly as a minor, and I have never seen a nude person there, even during the warmer summer months and sunny days. I’ve never seen anyone masturbating or being a pervert in any way. I have, however, seen used condoms and beer bottles and stuff like that. I know that bad things take place there, but it is by no means a “hotbed”.
                -I don’t believe Mr. Fraser had a reasonable expectation to believe he might expose “innocent little teenies” to anything. Like you said, it was a cold winter morning. I know for sure that as I drove to and arrived at Pirate’s Cove, I never once even considered the possibility of seeing a nudist. That seems absurd to me, to be frank.

                I hope I helped.

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                • hotdog says:

                  OK, someone who claims to have been present for ALL the issues before us has made some very specific claims about what happened-quite different from the tone and data presented by the article and some commenters here. All these claims can be easily verified by the school folks and maybe even some parents. I would urge the students to get the truth in to the school authorities asap and demand a fair and unbiased investigation.
                  If carsopolus is correct then I would hope the people in error would offer a sincere apology for jumping the gun in their invective against Mr. Fraser. And by my intuition and good faith in the students I will be heralded as a soothsayer by guessing the truth! Let’s get to the truth.

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                • Cindy says:

                  carsopolus, Your points are all well made and well taken, I’m sure this is all frustrating for you. What you don’t seem to understand is that there are plenty of students that have not reached the age of consent in your photo lab class. I hope you consider attending law school because your a born natural however regardless of the profession you may seek in the future, the day will arrive when you will laugh at the very idea of a policy being written that incorporates the ‘cold weather option’ to an exempted nude beach high school excursion. Policy just doesn’t land on paper that way, for one thing they would have to include how cold is cold enough, from there it will have to include what happens if it warms up while the students are there and how fast do they have to leave if it should reach what degree, etc etc etc , There is simply no end to it because where there is a loop hole someone always finds it, get my point? That’s what makes it all so funny. Fortunately or unfortunately, official policy assumes nothing, particularly that very idea that everyone is going to use sound judgment.
                  As for Mr. Fraser, I’m sure this is a first for the school board. I doubt it ever dawned on them that they would need a policy that said no nude beach excursions, that is why he is on ‘temporary’ suspension.
                  I doubt they will take any further action apart from writing that policy.

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              • Cindy says:

                The problem is that the stories and facts differ depending on which student you talk to. This gives the impression that they either are covering up all the facts or they are attempting to deflect questionable behavior by any means necessary. What they didn’t seem to understand is that the fact that the teacher had 2 girls in his car and 2 girls following added credibility to his innocuous intentions and not the other way around.
                Second, some of these students pointed to a website stating that we could view their group shots taken at the Cove the day of the excursion. The problem is that some of the group shots weren’t taken at the Cove. So it is the students themselves that have fanned these flames. I personally agree (that at face value) this all seems to be a lot to do about nothing. At the same time I suspect that you don’t have school age children, if you did you would know that there are policies in place and these policies clearly appear to have been ‘skirted’.

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                • Cindy says:

                  The above post was intended for hotdog.

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                • carsopolus says:

                  I know some students in the class have not reached the age of consent. Fortunately for them, their parents are well past that age, and, fortunately for the school and Mr. Fraser, those parents are the ones who willfully wrote their signatures on the consent form for students to leave campus. This is common knowledge, so I don’t understand your point. There have been allegations that not all students had the consent forms signed, but I will be astonished if that is the case. Each student had to get their guardian to sign that consent form at the beginning of both semesters. Mr. Fraser really bugged us about that. He asked the students every day if they had turned it in. I doubt he merely neglected to have every consent form in for every student.

                  I never suggested a new policy concerning students being allowed or prohibited from going to a nude beach during school hours based on temperature and season. I was only asserting the importance of common sense in this matter.

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                • carsopolus says:

                  “What they didn’t seem to understand is that the fact that the teacher had 2 girls in his car and 2 girls following added credibility to his innocuous intentions and not the other way around.”

                  But what you don’t seem to understand is that this is not a fact. This is nothing but lazy reporting. There would be no story if the “reporter” told the whole truth. Does Ms. Velie take the first thing she hears and add an irrelevant story of a cop suffering emotional trauma?Did she care to investigate anything besides the testimony of an ill-informed, hysterically-capitalizing-random-words mother?

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