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Undocumented students to get public money

September 4, 2011

A controversial state measure to provide publicly-funded financial aid to undocumented immigrant college students has ignited a widespread political firefight, and Gov. Jerry Brown has indicated he is likely to sign the bill into law. [Reuters]

The Assembly passed AB 131 (Manuel Perez, D-Coachella) by a 45-27 vote Friday with amendments requested by the governor. It’s part of the so-called Dream Act, the first section of which was passed in July, to allow undocumented students access to taxpayer money.

Republicans dissented, asserting the law will “encourage entry without authorization,” and claiming the law illogically does not address the issue of undocumented college graduates who still would not be not allowed to legally work in the United States.

“If we are going to invest in those students we should get some return on investment when they leave school for the workforce,” said Assemblyman Curt Hagman, R-Chino Hills.

“The Senate made history today by voting to pass … the final portion of the California Dream Act,” said Assembly member Gil Cedillo, a Democrat from Los Angeles.

Cedillo said that, if the governor okays the bill, it would “increase the earning potential of these students, which helps all of us by contributing to our tax base.”

That’s likely, because the bill is the final page to a plan Brown proposed during his campaign.  It would go into effect in 2013, and its cost has been pegged at about $40 million annually. Some legal residents from other states could also benefit from the bill’s provision.

California is one of about a dozen states that allow illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition, but only a handful allow financial aid for those individuals.


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Lucky undocumenteds. My child had to get student loans for her education and has graduated owing close to $30,000. She suffers the consequences of being a 4th generation Californian, I guess. And my friends’ grandchildren pay enormous out-of-state tuitions, though they’re U.S. citizens. And where’s this 40 mil per year they’re giving away coming from? For those who stay after college, still illegally so far, it will take a lifetime of taxes to come close to paying back. It saddens me to see what CA has become.


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Hopefully, while your child is working off her student loans she will make enough to pay the taxes to cover the people breaking the laws and getting rewarded with free education.


Viva liberalism!


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More like “fascism.” There is NOTHING “liberal” about it, if the words still means anything.


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This is backwards and time is running out or has run out on many.

This need to be “placed on hold” until we get our own taken care of first!


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TOO LATE!


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I used to say that I couldn’t afford to be a Republican, now I can’t afford to be a Democrat either. What is happening to the middle class? I am supporting the tax cheaters on one end and the slobs sucking off the taxes I do pay on the other end. We need a third party. RON PAUL I may be voting for you.


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You go girl…

I too get very frustrated by the way things are going, seemingly out of control, yet controlled for certain purposes. There is so much hypocrisy, being used to prop up politcal careers. Those who are our elected representatives send their kids to the best schools in the nation and many foreign kids are given a free ride at our best colleges, but the average public has to wait or apply for openings in our public schools. Who do you think really cares?


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Isn’t Ron Paul advocating a “free market” economy? A “free market” suggests that if there are jobs for immigrants they should be allowed to take those jobs without government interference.


As for these white folks who claim to have immigrated “legally” and have no sympathy “illegal” immigrants, may I remind you that the “legal” immigration process is NOT fair in the least and is absolutely discriminatory. Also, remember that until 1965 immigration from Mexico was NOT restricted.


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WiseGuy

Some of your sentence are running sentence but I can read what your saying

(I am a terrible typist and make the mistake of typing from the hip without editing)

But I am able to read what your saying and it has fact and some truth to it.


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Simple fact 1: We have laws and rules in our society, because that is what seperates us from the monkeys.


Simple fact 2: There is a simple legal process in order to enter our country (similar to that which is required in all nations worldwide including Mexico) and one that also allows immigrants to emigrate legally if they follow the rules, take a health physical and a civics test. It is a fair process that works and has been in place for generations and up until the 1980’s was followed and obeyed quite well.I have seversal friends who emigrtaed here from many countries around the globe and they ALL obeyed the law and followed the rules to become a legal American Citizen.


Simple fact 3: Free market economics also has rules and regulations that keeps it fair and balanced.Up until the 1970’s we had the bracero program, where “guest workers” could come here with a work visa and green card in hand, worked for the season and then returned home again. It worked very well until the unions got involved.


Simple fact 4: Just because someone breaks the law and sneaks into this country without any papers or approval does not automatically entitle them to handouts and benefits paid for by those of us who do follow the rules and laws.


Simple fact 5: If it weren’t for our spineless legislature and leadership in Washington DC, the laws of the land would have been enforced not ignored to garner more voters, if businesses were actually punished for hiring ILLEGALS instead of being given a pass or even stimulus money for hiring the cheapest labor and all public monies were denied to anyone here ILLEGALLY, there would not be a problem today. They simply would not come here…


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Yeah, let’s train them to be pilots for God’s sake. Typical bill written by a former illegal immigrant or at least his parents probably were.


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Really? pilots? Trying to smear some 911 onto Mexico.


“Typical bill written by a former illegal immigrant or at least his parents probably were.”


Can’t be bothered with facts, noted. He was born in Indio and went to Harvard.


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Notice how it’s often the same people who complain about people moving out of California because of high taxes and regulations, and then these exact same people turn around and complain when people from other countries move to California. Is this racism?


It seems to me that many of the immigrant Mexicans move to California because they want to work hard and earn a fair wage and don’t mind ;paying their fair share of California taxes as long as they enjoy the same rights as those who moved away from California had.


And notice also who it is often Americans who are blessed with with nice homes, decent educations, and all the food they can eat who are so quick to want to deny those things to others who are truly in need.


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Notice how those who snuck into our country ILLEGALLY have actually broken the law, hence criminals?

There are many PC deflections from the truth and the laws of this nation, but that does not make them right.

I have nothing against those who wish to come here legally and work legally, then go home again. In the past we hasd the bracero program and it worked very well for decades. Then politics got involved…

I see a similar posts from those who attack the working class who work hard, who pay their bills and don not break the laws, compared to those who do not and want to have the public pay their way, hence the homeless.

My suggestion is have the homeless do the work the ILLEGALS come here to do and then there will be harmony…


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Truly in need? how about us legal citizens who cant afford an education at Cuesta or Poly because of rising costs? What happen to taking care of our own first?


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rally,

IMHO, this has become a matter of political importance, because the Dems are courting the “undocumented immigrants” who number in the millions. This is not just about a few smart children of illegal immigrants born here, who want to get into out schools for free. This is about a complete change in our way of life…

Why do you think nothing has been done to secure our borders and to enforce our laws since the 1980’s? It’s about voters and cheap labor.


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That may be cheap labor for companies/corporations but the cost to the middle class taxpayers is extreme – housing, feeding, medical, law enforcement, prisons, schools, child care etc. When more of your population is receiving and not paying for their services vs those who are paying and not receiving, you have major deficits. Hello, we are all in trouble and everyone will pay – some in more taxes and others with less services. The pie slices keeps getting cut slimmer and slimmer.


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So if these students are undocumented, they aren’t even anchor babies, they’re just illegal.


What if they get their education and then go home, leaving us with the bill? Maybe that won’t happen, but it seems strange that in a time of cut backs, we are finding new ways to spend the money we don’t have.


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Pay back what? This will be a “grant” (free education). Legals get “loans” and have to pay it back!


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“And notice also who it is often Americans who are blessed with with nice homes, decent educations, and all the food they can eat who are so quick to want to deny those things to others who are truly in need.”


So you have no problem with the fact that the law is being broken by those with whom you sympathize? I guess you also would condone thieves….they need more money to survive. How about embezzlers? They also need more money. As long as the law is being ignored, your argument seems questionable. Are you sure you’re just not after cheap tomatoes?


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Good post WG, and usually I would be here with my points on this topic but I’m not in the mood to fight this one. Such a sensitive topic, Karen knows which articles to publish that will push the cons buttons. This one will get them in a tail spin, love it. I can picture their head exploding as they are reading it.


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You think this is a good idea?


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Oh geez, I wasn’t going to get into this one but I’ll try hard to make it short. I feel that anyone that wants to further their education is an asset to this country. A good education means less crime and more productive people which equals more revenue. I’d much rather have a smart educated working Hispanic then a lazy unemployed Hispanic or white guy for that matter. If someone is willing to come from a ghetto or a down and out home and they are willing to further themselves then I don’t care who they are I say lets help them, it benefits all of us in the long run. These people have a much harder time getting a good education so they need a boost. I know that this isn’t a popular line of thought but IMO it makes sense.


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All very well and nice, but what happens if there is no respect for the laws or the country, and they’re just “getting theirs?”


This is not about race or ethnicity, as much as you would like it to be. This is about the law. Should people who disregard our laws be rewarded by those who do?


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I wasn’t trying to make it about race or the legalities. I really don’t feel like having a long drawn out argument over this, and with this topic it will become just that. I was simply stating why I feel it’s a good idea. I want smart people in this country, I feel it’s better for all of us, that’s that. You know I could go on and on but I’ll save that for next tea bag argument, err,discussion.


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I’m starting to understand why you wanted to stay out of this. There’s no short way cover the provisions of the bill.


Wikipedia has an article on the 2009 Dream Act which mentions the requirements that the student must meet. The 2011 version makes some refinements, but they both generally target someone who wants to become a citizen, get an education and stay out of trouble.


They must have been under the age of 16 when they arrived in the US, they must have been in the US for at least five years, they must maintain a fairly clean record (nothing more serious than one or two misdemeanors), they must have graduated from high school or have a valid GED, and there are more requirements.


So the bill does try to focus on helping those who want to become a citizen and get an education.


After reading additional material my complaint is that this may increase illegal immigration when I’d like to see the opposite. I’d be happier if the bill stated that they must have been in the US before 2011 to ever qualify.


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Amen to you sister, you pay for their education!


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“I’d much rather have a smart educated working Hispanic then a lazy unemployed Hispanic or white guy for that matter.”


It’s hard to argue that observation, Typo, but I think we have a surplus of educated, hardworking, legal citizens unable to find work in the country today. Where is the “need” to add more, especially those of illegal status. They’ve already taken jobs from construction, fast food, etc. where kids and our own trained workers would have been employed legally. I think we do a disservice to allow illegal activity of any kind.


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I’m still trying to stay out of this, I guess that I just can’t help myself. I have a child that recently applied for some scholarships and grants after we sent in our FASFA. When talking with the lady that was helping us, she said that it always surprises her how few people really take advantage of the grants (as well as scholarships) that are out there. There are so few that go through the FASFA procedures that when they have FASFA workshops they have an insentive drawing to get students there by having giving away $1000 at each workshop to one lucky student. There are ways for kids to get help financially if they really need it, all they need to do is go through the paperwork and foot work to do it. If one makes under a certain amount or if they have extenuating circumstances then they may qualify for govt. aid. So I believe that all of these people that keep going on about how they don’t get this and that and that and the minorities get it all probably aren’t trying hard enough or else they make too much $ to qualify.


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This clarifies your perspective a bit. You will not be amongst those of us required to pay for this generous gift. Those of us who “make too much” will be trying to save for our own childrens education while enjoying yet another tax hike to fund this. And our kids will compete for a spot in our maxed-out state colleges against the same kids who drained public school resources for years. Resources needed to bring our own citizens – of all races- out of poverty. There are complex issues needing to be addressed here, but there is no incentive for anyone to do so. Follow the money. And the votes. (Redundant, I know)


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Wiseguy, Apparently you didn’t get the point. They are complaining about taxpayers, highly educated or skilled workers, and businesses moving out of California. They are not concerned about the unskilled jobless or homeless moving out.


The illegal immigrants or undocumented workers moving in are people needing jobs and services, often people with limited education and no job training. The same “needy” complaints are made about US citizens from other states moving here for the benefits.


Stick your “racism” claim where the sun don’t shine.


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The Dream act is a smart move: create some more college educated taxpayers. Their families have been here for a solid amount of time paying taxes. They’re going to school to better themselves and get higher paying jobs. If the government does not have the juevos to toss out illegal workers, they might as well take advantage of their academic prowess.


Look at the reality… the Dream Act is chump change compared to the high salaried and corrupt state and local governments. A few educated illegal aliens is the smallest of many problems in this state.


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ILLEGAL college educated taxpayers. Giving them financial aid doesn’t make them legal. It just makes them people who take advantage of their ILLEGAL status. The State will no doubt raise taxes to offset this bill once signed into law.


When will it end…?


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So if you are young man or woman from a third world country and come here to study, let’s say “chemistry” . After you graduate fly home and use your education against us. It should be renamed “Nightmare Act”


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This law translates to government dependency and therefore—votes for the enablers.


Say you stand in line at the theater, buy your movie ticket, then go stand in line for some popcorn, Some dude sneaks into the theater, cuts in front of you, then the manager gives him some popcorn, and charges you extra to cover the free popcorn…Something like that…


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Yeah, but without all the “racism” cover, you are pointing out the flaw in the system. Please add some racism to it in order to hide the facts. Kthanks.


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Not enough coffee in me this morning…Huh? I didn’t get the gist of that one…


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It was a (bad) tongue-in-cheek reply reflecting on how some people like to hide crappy laws behind the shield of racism. Just look at some of these replies – we’ve got plenty of folks just itching to sound the racism klaxxons at the drop of a pin. Stuff like this bill only plays into their Pavlovian responses.


Did not mean to say you actually needed to use racism, but that you were pointing out the flaws, while others just want to look for the racist angles. It was not conveyed as intended.


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The Calif Dream act or the California ream act? The state is going broke, were losing public and critical emergency services on a daily basis due of cut backs, yet our leaders continue to hand out money from the working class LEGAL residents of calif to those who willingly break our laws. Thanks Moonbeam, fine job your doin.


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