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Budget woes jeopardize plans for California’s bullet train

July 25, 2011

Plans to build a high-speed rail system in California that would transport passengers from San Diego to San Francisco on a bullet train traveling 220 mph have been beset by a series of roadblocks that are now exacerbated by budget cuts. [California Watch]

Critics say it’s time to pull the plug; supporters argue that large public transportation projects of this scale have progressed in the past without adequate funding.

An infusion of $19 billion in federal funding, which would account for 40 percent of a $43 billion system, appears to be in jeopardy as Congress grapples with record deficits and scrambles to cut costs.

If completed, California’s system would be the first truly high-speed rail network in the United States. Bullet trains would race down the San Joaquin Valley, linking Sacramento to San Diego and tying into the Peninsula that links San Francisco and San Jose.

More than $250 million has been spent so far, but the real money will kick in with the scheduled start of construction between Bakersfield and Fresno in 2012, which is estimated to cost $5.5 billion.

House Republicans want to kill the entire venture. They zeroed out all funds for high-speed rail in their budget and voted last week to redirect rail funds, including $368 million for California, to flood-control projects in Missouri.

At the same time, a string of highly critical reports from outside panels have questioned the project’s feasibility.

Recently, a panel reviewed the high-speed rail project and warned that it lacks a viable business plan, and urged a reassessment of cost, estimates of ridership, anticipated funding and risks before committing the state to spending billions of dollars it does not have.

Nonetheless, the plan is to move forward on the project, according Gil Duran, spokesman for Gov. Jerry Brown. But, he added, “It’s not something we can do alone.”

Federal aid, however, will be necessary for the project, which would be the nation’s first truly high-speed rail system, to be completed.

Future federal funding of the magnitude California is counting on is “a pipe-dream” said Robert Poole, director of transportation policy for the libertarian Reason Foundation in Los Angeles. “That’s just an astonishingly large amount of money given the federal budget deficit situation.”

Poole noted that President Obama’s call for a $53 billion, six-year investment in high-speed rail identified no funding source.

Brian Stanke, co-chairman and founder of Californians for High Speed Rail, said it’s rare for a project of this scale to receive its full share of funding before getting started. He cited the BART extension to San Jose, which is proceeding without full funding.

“That’s considered very normal and no one says the sky is falling.”


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So what is the speedy train for, faster job hunting?

The economy is in ruin. Besides, he trains would come from Germany or China, the rails from Korea, the labor from immigrants, the money borrowed and the trains empty. That’s modern American ingenuity at work.


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SLO county, and probably every county in California has a growing homeless population that includes adults and children, cuts in public health care facilities, cuts in educating our youth, banks that have ‘bailed out’ with taxpayer money yet won’t lend a dime unless your credit rating exceeds 800, unemployment at an unprecendented level with no end in sight, the cities, counties, federal governments, all broke, two official wars costing BILLIONS a day (Iraq and Afghanistan) plus Libya, foreign aid to foreign governments that either hate us or want to kill us, ETC….


And yet spending $16,287 per FOOT on a railroad that to be effective (passenger revenue) would have to make so many multiple stops and charge exhorbitant fees to make it feasable (“construction between Bakersfield and Fresno in 2012 alone, which is estimated to cost $5.5 billion”; and that’s just Bako to Fresno.. see proposed full route…http://www.ca4hsr.org) the 200 MPH plus figure would be quickly negated with all those stops, is just another example of the HUGE DISCONNECT that exists between the people that PAY (taxpayers) and the people that PLAY (your elected representatives with TAXPAYERS money)!!!!


$16, 287 per FOOT…. give me a break!!!!!!!!!


Per FOOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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I’m sorry, but your math is WAAAY OFF!! You and I both know it will cost MUCH MORE than that. I’m planning a $1 M high-speed train to my mailbox. Know where I can get a loan?


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I’d be happy to get three or four or ten even, homeless people and we will finish off about 30 feet. Then build a working farm on our acreage along with a a bunch of houses and we are set. Eat our own food, build a hospital, a school, and a movie theatre, then fill in a big hole with water, set a zoo next to it and call it Atrashcadero. We will not need money from the state because we will have plenty of money rolling in due to all the back injuries everyone suffered building the 30 feet of railway track. I will just lay back in my chaise and enjoy my life like I do now.


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Well, we really can’t afford mass transit… we’re well on the way to 3rd world status


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Yes the US is well on its way to third world status… but only for the common MAJORITY (aka MIDDLE class) taxpayer.


The current government in all forms (local, state and federal) is NOW funded and completely controlled by the non tax paying wealthy!


And this is the COMMON EVOLUTION of mankind proven time after time century after century…

it just took a mere 200 years for this country to get there…. and WE ARE THERE!


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Nailed it!


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The cost of this proposed train is $86 million per mile or $16,287 per foot. It will be right at 500 miles long, will follow the 5 Freeway through the Valley, so will completely bypass the Central Coast.


There is something seriously wrong with these dollar figures, as with most spending numbers we have seen out of Washington in the last few years. The story notes the Obama Adminstration never identified a funding source and if the Federal Budget is going to be cut these train funds will have to come out of another program. The question is which program?


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Can ya help me with the ridership math?


A $43 billion train, $43,000,000,000 !!!, is gonna take how many riders?


A million? That’s $43,000 per rider.


Ten million? $4,300 per rider.


If we put 100 million riders on the train, that’s one third of all the people in the state, it’s $430 per passenger.


Oh. And I don’t think that figure includes fuel, payroll, taxes, or even trains for that matter.


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You are right. If we can get every one of the 310 million people living in America to ride the train from San Diego to San Francisco and pay $139 each (plus who knows how much the other state and federal taxes and surcharges will be on the ticket) then the basic $43 billion cost will be paid. However, you still need to cover ongoing operating and repair expenses. So a $175 to $200 ticket cost would be needed provided you could get all 310,000,000 million people in America to ride the train from San Diego to San Francisco.


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Yup.


The other side of the same coin is that every single American will need to kick down $139 for this wonder of engineering.


Oh, wait. More than half of us don’t pay any income tax. So the burden becomes $278 per person.


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220 mph???


You have to be kiiiiiiiiiding!!!!!!!!!!!!


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For the cost of the train, you could GIVE me a high priced sports car and raise the speed limit on I-5 to 220 mph… and it would be a lot more fun than sitting is a stuffy train with little kids smearing their bodily fluids all over the windows.


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I’m not sure that I understand this. I’ve always read that the train would be built with it starting and ending in weird spots in the desert, not San Diego and San Francisco. If it did go from SD to SF while stopping in LA and maybe SB. then I would be more supportive of it. But of course there must be funding for it and it must be well thought out. If it is then I say go for it. It will bring thousands of jobs and provide a well needed service. Of course it’s silly to even think about it right now if we don’t have the funding for it.


What ever happened to the spirit that this country used to have starting back with Lewis and Clark, then the building of a transcontinental railroad, Hoover Dam, space exploration etc.. It seems like we’ve lost that and that’s very sad. We’re adopting that tea bag mentality of dumbing down the country and self serving greed. I guess we should become resigned to no longer being innovators and the number one country in the world.


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“tea bag mentality”? Whatever does that mean??? I agree that there are powerful interest groups steeped in “self serving greed,” but really! Your terminology for your political opponents is BADLY in need of rejuvination!


Go to: http://www.thedailybell.com


Check the glossary.


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http://www.thedailybell.com/1878/Tea-Party.html


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I read your definition, and yes that’s what they say they are. What they fail to say is that they are as I said tools for the wealthy, that should be added in there. I’ve been to bagging rallies, those poor people have no idea that they are being used, it’s really kinda sad that people can be so dumb. Some of the most stupid remarks that I’ve ever heard were while I was having conversations with baggers at those rallies. They protest things that they don’t understand. They believe what they want even if it means going against facts.


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What about the oligarchs? Why can’t you comment about them? Your comments on the “tea party” are not to the point. The “tea party” does not run the world economy. It’s the POWER ELITE that does that. We live in an OLIGARCHY. Wake up before it is too late!


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Oligarchy is a good term for tea baggers. They are a small group that are almost running this country. In fact it is the baggers that holding up the budget process. They are being run by the right wing power elite. Geez, it almost could sound like we agree.


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There is what I call a strong tea bag mind set taking over the Repub. party. They are against moving forward. Not all my political opponents have that mentality but these days many do. This is the tea bag mentality: give to the wealthy, no compromise, dumbing down the country, no working with those that they disagree with, working to making the wealthy wealthier and the middle class poor, and a lack of honesty. That is what the tea bag mentality means to me. Those all seem to be common denominators with baggers. The budget debates going on as I type are great example of the tea bag mentality. They are fighting to let the wealthy keep their tax loopholes and to let them continue to pay little to no taxes.


The baggers are disgusting and stupid. Disgusting because they only care about themselves and they want to push thier religion and their beliefs on everyone. Stupid because they are tools for the wealthy and they don’t know it.


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Why can’t you stay on topic and stop the name calling. The article is about a horrendously expensive rail project without any funding…


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I started off on topic, that’s not bad for me.


If you read my first post I was on topic, then I got into a discussion with Gimlet. I didn’t stray that far.


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This topic is not about you. Why not let the people who have information and informed opinions make comments. I would like to know more about the bullet train.


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You are the one that’s making it about me. I was having a

civil fairly on topic discussion with Gim.. I started this thread on topic and stated my opinion and then others responded to my opinion. If you and easy don’t like my posts then don’t read them. I skip Roger’s posts and some of SSB’s, I invite you to skip mine.


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All this back and forth is making me dizzy. What it all boils down to is $16,000+ per foot expense that we don’t need right now. Some of us have to wait to get what we want due to a shortage of funds. Well I can wait for this.


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Spirit, as I said, I really don’t know what to make of it. It seems like they don’t really have a good plan. When starting a business one should always start with a good business plan. I’m all for a high speed train, I think it would add jobs, be good for the environment and be convenient. But it just doesn’t seem to add up. There is no good solid plan so IMO it’s too much money to risk if they don’t have it together more than they appear to do.


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WOW! Again with the Pot calling the Kettle black.


You’re really on a roll, typo….what kind of roll I don’t know but you’re on one.


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The environmentalists have stifled all spirit of innovation and progress in this country. They are hell bent controlling every facet of our lives. Green is the new red.


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Perfect example of your comment is the proposed solar projects in the Carrizo Plains. All the hand wringing by the environmentalists for more green renewable energy, yet they are the very ones suing and fighting these green passive projetcs. Can’t win for losing…


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I’m not a sheep, most libs I don’t follow blindly. Many of us are for that solar plant, or at least giving it a try. There are always going to be people against everything,,,on both sides of the isle.


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I did this job in SF a couple of years ago at this hotel that advertised it was the first all green hotel in the city. No open windows just same air recirculating all day and all night. Made me sick. Smelled stale to me. Rooms were expensive as hell. Being all green means the more green the place is the more green you need to pay for it. Another way to spend wasteful dollars. I guess society requires new ways to spend money all the time to make itself feel worthwhile.

The only thing good about the place other than the staff, was the free and easy way everyone enjoyed their pot. Right out in the open like they didn’t care who saw them. They passed the joint along to perfect strangers. Pretty relaxed atmosphere that reminded me of Santa Cruz. A lot of homeless but very friendly people.


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What is the hotel called?


Going green is a great concept and in many cases it’s working well. But like Carrizo Plains it’s fairly new so there’s going to be a lot of bugs to work out. Who knows maybe CP will do a lot of environmental damage or maybe there might be problems that we couldn’t foresee. But the only way to really find out is to do it. At least we are trying to reach out and progress, moving forward is what we need in this country. The US has reached a point IMO where the people have nothing to be proud of. We aren’t #1 with anything anymore. There’s no first man on the moon moments and I don’t see any in the future.


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Mrs. T., I would tell you the name of it if you called me. I don’t want to lose their business. It is on Fulton st. in the heart of the business district as far as I remember. Huge hotel. We touched up about 110 rooms worth of wood furniture. Had to use huge fans pointed toward the stairway to the roof to get rid of the smell from our finish because of the lack of ventilation, no windows or doors that opened to the outside. The smell would be gone after a couple of hours but the “green effect” kept fresh air out.

They actually they have two hotels. One at the top of the hill and one at the bottom of the hill.

Beautiful property with extremely expensive furniture. Real American made heavy wood from the old days when there were people that took great pride in manufacturing something mostly by hand. It was an honor to repair this fine furniture. Hotel guests don’t know they are damaging pieces of art when they slide their keys or whatever across the tops. Oh well, keeps my crew busy and me sitting on my chaise lounge in the pool with a diet Pepsi in my hand. God’s Blessings to all.


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FAIL!


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You might be thinking of the second CA bullet train with its phase I proposed for Victorville to Las Vegas. Eventually the idea is this train will run to Disneyland.


The problem is this SF to SD train is projected to cost $86 million per mile or $16,287. Today, America borrows $.44 of every dollar we spend. Realistically, where does the money come from to fund a train that is going to cost $16,287 per mile to build and serve fewer people than use Highway 46 in an hour on a Friday evening during the summer?


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Should be a cost of $16,287 per foot (it is an $86 million per mile cost).


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I can’t really give an educated opinion on this project I really don’t know the details, haven’t seen a real plan and it appears that no one else has either. I’m not saying that I’m all for the project. I do like the idea, I do like that there might be a chance that we could step into the future like we used to do back in the old days. But I don’t know the nuts and bolts and neither do you. After reading this article it sounds as if those figures that you gave are just a guess. So am I for a bullet train that runs from northern Ca. to so. Ca, yes very much so. Am I for a project that is not planned out well and we don’t know where the funding is coming from, no.


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The plan is very real, building starts in 2012. The only question is how accurate are their cost estimates. As you know many large projects like this come in way over the cost estimates.


This is from the original story about Phase I from CaliforniaWatch:

“More than $250 million has been spent so far, but the real money will kick in with the scheduled start of construction between Bakersfield and Fresno in 2012, whose is estimated to cost $5.5 billion.”


This is the least expensive section per mile because it is being built on virtually flat, wide open land. Yet the cost is going to still be $50 million per mile ($5.5 billion/110 miles=$50 million per mile)!


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Well, that’s kinda my point. Something isn’t being planned very well if it’s going to cost that much. Is there someone out there going over the numbers to actually figure out why it’s so expensive? Why is it running in the valley when the main population and the main travel routes would be from San Diego-LA to SF? How many people would take the train from Sac. to Fresno. I would like to see the studies that back up their belief that those are good productive destinations, maybe they are but I would like to see more about that. I’ve looked and I haven’t been able to find out those types of details.


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Like most of the “Budget woes jeopardize plans for California’s “_____________, fill in the blank…


Unfunded mandates and out of control spending have reduced this once great state and the 6th biggest economy in the world which led the nation in technology, to a meer shadow of it’s former glory. And here we have another seemingly good idea without any funding, and a limited use by only a small portion of the population.


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“Poole noted that President Obama’s call for a $53 billion, six-year investment in high-speed rail identified no funding source.”


Why is this boondoggle even being considered? Pull the plug on it NOW!


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That one penny would be spent on this idea is simply ludicrous. Kill it and make sure it’s dead!


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