In-state tuition for illegals? Most say OK

January 18, 2012

Americans’ views on illegal immigration and educational benefits for undocumented immigrants are nearly evenly divided, yet reflect a wide schism between members of political parties, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey.

Most Americans continue to endorse tough enforcement as a means of cracking down on illegal immigration, and a plurality wants to see both better border security, and a reasonable path to citizenship.

Twice as many Republicans as Democrats, however, believe only better border security and stricter law enforcement are needed to solve the issue.

Those interviewed — 2,001 registered voters nationwide — also were split on the issue of in-state college tuition for illegal immigrants graduating from high school in the state in which they are living: 48 percent agree they should be eligible, 46 percent say they should not.


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The Gimlet Eye

Non-Residents Projected to Flood the UC System in Upcoming Years

Written by Guardian Opinion


The University of California released preliminary data on undergraduate applications Jan. 12, revealing two significant, but not altogether unsurprising, figures: Applications from out-of-state and international students are up, while applications from transfers are down.


WiseGuy

One interesting statistic that most people ignore is that the rate of violent crime and property crime among “undocumented immigrants” in the U.S. is LOWER than that for U.S. citizens.


This FACT gets lost among the absolute LIES that are repeated over and over again that say, among other things, such total falsehoods as: “half of the California prison population are illegal immigrants.”


In any case, powers that be have designed our system/shitstem so that Mexico provides corporate America with low cost workers who have less rights and are more easily exploited than U.S. citizens.


The system is rigged in order to maintain the flow of uneducated undocumented immigrants into the U.S., while simultaneously encouraging Americans to fight among themselves and blame foreigners for the nation’s problems.


The fundamental problems that the U.S. is suffering from have nothing to do with immigration, but there are plenty of people who profit by maintaining that illusion while the serious crimes against citizens and humanity continue, while the citizens fight among themselves and the real criminals roam free.


Robert1

Maybe the crime is lower because they don’t report it because of fear of being deported?????????????


WiseGuy

Your response is ridiculous from a logical point of view. You are implying that U.S. citizens who commit crimes re more likely to report their own crimes than are immigrants.


In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s extremely rare for criminals of any nationality to report their own crimes.


Get real, please. Responding strictly on emotion, without logical thought does no one any good.


Robert1

The victims that are illegal don’t report being victims in fear of deportation,


there for the – property crime among “undocumented immigrants” in the U.S. is LOWER than that for U.S. citizens. is a myth .


WiseGuy

So, you are saying that “illegals” primarily target other “illegals”?


In any case, on a per capita basis, there is NO conclusive evidence that “illegals’ commit more violent or property crimes than citizens.


roymann

In the late 70’s I was working on a construction site with a guy from Germany named Rolph B. During one of our many lunch time conversations, Rolph stated the reason why the crime rate was so high in America compared to Europe was because years ago Europe had opened their prisons and sent all their convicts to America. He said criminal behavior was deeply rooted in our gene pool. It actually makes a bit of sense.


The Gimlet Eye

“undocumented immigrants”???


Come on, what’s with the cute euphemisms? What’s wrong with the legal term “illegal aliens”? Too painful to pronounce?


Slowerfaster

Nolo Law Dictionary: “undocumented immigrant” http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/undocumented-immigrant-term.html


Slowerfaster

To follow up… in looking up “illegal immigrant” , here is the result:

http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/illegal-immigrant-term.html


“illegal immigrant”

See: undocumented immigrant


There is no legal definition of “illegal alien” . That is merely common parlance …or a dysphemism which is the opposite of the ‘euphemisms’ you so dislike.


The Gimlet Eye

The word “undocumented” is not an English word. I search my dictionaries in vain for it. I’m sure Nolo is a recognized authority of good English usage, and not some newfangled, politically correct repository of neologisms. Neither are “uncitizened,” “un-Americanated,” and “unbirthday,” I assume for the same reason.


illegal immigrant is an oxymoron!


“undocumented immigrant” is a malapropism at best, and a morphological, oxymoronic monstrosity at worst.


A man was in an open buggy traveling at night in a rainstorm. He was in a hurry to find shelter when he passed a farmhouse. Out of the window of this farmhouse a man stuck out his head and yelled, “Hullo! Hullo!” The traveler stopped and asked the man at the window what he wanted.


“Nothing from you,” he replied.


The traveler asked in consternation, “Then why in damnation are you yelling “Hullo” out your window?”


The man at the window replied, “Well why in damnation are you passing by when people are yelling hullo”?


zaphod
Citizen

Black’s is the standard legal dictionary. Nolo is a legal publishing company that provides an online dictionary in layman’s terms. Nolo publishes self help legal books.


Side_Show_Bob

“Most say OK?”


I say BS!


2001 registered voters polled nationwide?


Yeah….that makes for some solid data.


Slowerfaster

I remember back when I was a little kid, and all of the old-timers were discussing how their most immediate relations had arrived in America. Some knew the particulars…others were not sure. Most had come from Northern European countries; Scandinavia, Germany, Poland.


Somebody thought of asking Arvid… a tall and quiet Swede with a buzzcut and coke bottle glasses. He was somebodies cousin, as far as anyone knew. He had emigrated from Sweden around 1910. The USA was looking for workers to manufacture various war materiels to sell to both sides in WWI, so it was pretty easy to get into the States then.

So, Arvid was asked to tell his story of how he came to America:

Arvid said, ” Vell, I vas in the Svedish Navy, and one night I vas down by the docks and I got drunk and got into a big fight and killed two guys. I figured that vas a good time to move to America “.


So, Arvid was a military deserter AND a murderer; but he WAS a legal immigrant !


BeenThereDoneThat

I’m sure in 1910 without the use of computers, phone (it was still new and not widely used) or the net, was probably kind of hard to do a background check. So your point would be what?


Citizen

Your point is…?


Citizen

Were you just mocking Swedish immigrants with an accent, or perhaps implying that many of them were criminal immigrants? Did you have to point out that this immigrant was Swedish?


If the story was about an Hispanic immigrant, and you mocked their accent, then you would call it “racist”, wouldn’t you. Think about it.


zaphod

If the story was about high school and college students continuing and extending their education in the country they are living in would you recognize the collective value of supporting the program?


Citizen

The problem with this program is that unless the students get their citizenship (not required) before they graduate , they will not be able to work legally in the US. Also, they still will not be able to legally get a driver’s license or even vote.


We should have offered a fast track to citizenship for these certain students. Then they would be able to get in state tuition, scholarships, and would be able to legally work and drive in the US.


One special program for illegals (citizens of other countries) will lead to another special program. The taxpayers will pay through the nose for these special programs.


Slowerfaster

Three men …an Irishman, a Mexican, and a Swede were high rise construction workers working on the 20th floor of a new building. Lunch time came, and the Irishman exclaimed when he opened his lunch, “Blimey…corned beef and cabbage again ! If I have to eat this one more time, I’ll jump off this building ! ” Similarly, the Mexican opened his lunch, ” Burritos ! Ay curamba ! If I get burritos again, I’ll jump, too! ” The Swede unpacked his lunch, ” Uff da ! Lutefisk ! If I hafta eat lutefisk once more, I’m a gonna leap off this building ! ”


Sure enough, the next day lunch came and the Irishman had corned beef and cabbage. and he jumped to his death.

The Mexican had…you guessed it, burritos, and he jumped, too.

The Swede found lutefisk, again, and leapt after them.


At the joint funerals, the widows were commisserating: The Irishman’s wife said through tears, “If I had known how tired he was of corned beef and cabbage, I would never have packed it for him ! “.

The Mexican wife cried the same about her burritos.

They waited and stared while the Swedish widow was weeping profusely.

She finally said, “Don’t look at me…He packs his own lunch …”


sloweb

I think the aspect of this that is objectionable to most, is the “illegal” part. I hope that we can soon resolve this by coming up with a plan that would provide a procedure to more easily allow foreigners (from any country) that want to join our nation and society COMPLETELY. Completely means all in. Both the benefits AND the responsibilities. Most citizens have little tolerance for those that wish to “cherry-pick” just the benefits.


Border security would have to be a part of it. Just as with all of our other laws and regulations, there has to be adequate monitoring and enforcement.


Making exceptions to our immigrations laws based on ethnicity or country of origin is racial bias. Our country is supposed to be against that.


The fact that this issue has been problematic and gone without any attempt at resolution for several decades, causes me to wonder if people from both sides of the issue don’t want to see it happen for their own reasons.


We are a country of laws. If it is the law, enforce it. If you don’t like the law, for what ever reason, change it!


danika

An interesting article in the LA Times about how these “illegals” send $23 BILLION back to Mexico each year. Down from 2007 but up from 2010. They must be doing something right. Come here, get government assistance, work for cash under the table and send it home to the family who will someday come here and do it too. Welcome to the new American Dream!


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mexico-remittances-20120112,0,6700884.story


Robert1

Additional Child Tax Credit (ACTC) . ….. illegal immigration costs u.s. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. the … education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at …… 2008 but received an estimated 26 percent of EITC benefits—about $12 billion

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921


Slowerfaster

danika …what say you about the estimated $2 Trillion in US profits that corporations offshore to foreign tax havens such as mail drop-boxes in in the Caymen Islands, Bermuda, and even Ireland ?

This is EVERY year !

Conservatively, this reduces US tax revenues by $90 Billion. If the corporations paid what they SHOULD be paying, by statute at 35%, this is a loss of $700 Billion EVERY YEAR from the federal budget.


Deficit ? What deficit ?


BTW, when corporations avoid and evade paying their fair share; guess what happens to individuals taxes that cannot move their income to one of these shelters ?


hotdog

This introduces a long ignored (or under discussed) issue of welfare, jobs and money. We have for decades argued about welfare (for the poor, some of whom scammed the system). But we hardly ever discuss welfare for the rich. They have skillfully directed the discussion away from the trillions they have ripped us off for, while illuminating the few poor on welfare that have big screen tvs etc. The system at both ends deserves examination but the real crooks are at the top, not the bottom.

And ALL the original settlers in this country were illegal aliens; having come here to steal the land, kill the natives and reap the benefits of ‘the promised land’. Since then millions have come to escape poverty, oppression and economic gloom in their homelands. We ought to regulate this influx but keep in mind that we (the readers here, and just about all of the 350 million residents of the US) were so lucky to be born here, perhaps that might modify the often cruel rhetoric about those who seek a better life-such as was handed to us without any effort on our part.


danika

This article is not about off-shore corporations, is it? No. What say you about the subject matter, illegals?


Slowerfaster

danika… it was YOU that brought up the subject of transfer of monies out of the country.


The article is about Americans attitudes on education and other opinions on immigration.

You dragged the red herring into the mix. I only followed your lead.


By the way: I congratulate you on having the wisdom to select parents so obviously to your liking !


slowtime

On the issue of Border Security; why is our border to the south so loose? I just learned that a US citizen cannot travel to Canada if he has a misdemeanor conviction! This is in stark contrast to our southern border. Seems to me that if a alien from South America wanted to travel to Canada, he would has easy passage until the Canadian border. What are the Canadians doing that the US isnt?


Slowerfaster

The Canadians have these giant wind machines that make it very cold and snowy up dere. They also put those giant lakes between the US and them that makes it difficult to cross.


Pretty smart, those Canucks, hey ?


slowtime

yaa, hard to carry da ice on da back across dose lakes i suppose…