Illegal immigration targeted by trio

October 20, 2011

Three conservative Republican activists are backing a two-pronged initiative proposal intended to stem illegal immigration in California.

The proposal for Nov. 2012 would impose limits on financial assistance and Medi-Cal participation, and require the state’s law enforcement agencies to work more efficiently with federal immigration authorities.

Filing the proposal with the state’s attorney general Monday were former state GOP chairman Tirso Del Junco, Ted Hilton of San Diego and Bill Siler of Concord. Siler and Hilton sponsored a similar plan in 2009 but failed to gather enough signatures to qualify it for the ballot.

If eventually approved by voters, the proposal would deny to undocumented immigrants public financial assistance. It also would block issuance of drivers’’s license, and require fingerprinting for tax-funded pregnancy services.

Individuals determined to have an “immigration detainer” would be transferred to federal authorities under provisions of the plan.

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USDA certified guess worker program where taxes are paid, wages and working conditions proper and guranteed, return to home and villages for a month or two annually to visit and take care family business, take driver’s test and buy insurance for those who are drivers (most ride in car pools), and in a couple of years they won’t be back because they will have bought a store, ranch or use a learned skill in the place they really want to be – Home. I will commenting on my experience with our “Citizen Picking Crew” shortly.

I find it odd that I am agreeing with what most people are saying, regarding not providing benefits, no anchor babies, etc.. but because I am wording it in a way that expresses happiness to have noncitizens here who want to work hard, instead of being angry that they are here and illegally crossed a border (how do you illegally cross a border into a “free country?” Go back in time and tell that to East Germans or Communists) everybody is hating on me like I’m a liberal handing out welfare checks. That’s the warm soft fuzz of racism.

I am glad to see some Californian’s don’t espouse illegal immigration. I believe there is a not-so-hidden agenda behind the sudden surge of Mexicans entering the country and declaring that they are the largest minority here.

For example, quotations like this;

Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico , “The American Southwest

seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a

single shot.”

Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. “They’re afraid we’re going to

take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They’re

right. We will take them over … We are here to stay.”

There is something more here than just people who “want a better life”.

Cutting off an open spigot of benefits might help stem the tide. Giving driver’s licences (ID that is defacto proof of legal status) to illegal aliens is a really bad idea.

Crossing the border without permission does not automatically impart rights as a citizen and it shouldn’t. When states start giving benefits they deny to Americans to unregistered citizens of other nations they give the nations a toehold to claim they have some rights to interfere in American sovereignty.

HEY EVERYBODY WHY DON’T WE JUST STOP HIRING THEM !!!!!! Then there would be no reason for them to come . We should take a page out of the NRA playbook which is a good idea . If we just enforce the existing laws like penalizing employers for hiring illegals , then we would not have a problem . I don’t see gangs of illegals rooming motel row forcing employers to hire them .

WE ONLY HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME !!!!! Poor Mrs. So-n-so had to stop her tennis match to text their lawyer to bail her husband out of jail because of an INS raid at their ________ ( fill in the blank ) business . Oh , how embarrassing !!!! . It was those illegal’s fault , I throughly went over their paper work . Their papers were clearly written with bright colored crayon on the back of an envelope that said YOU ARE A WINNER . So I hired all twenty-seven of them and paid them five , yeah , that’s right FIVE WHOLE BUCK AN HOUR , am i not truly benevolent . I would not be surprised if most of GOP chairman Tirso Del Junco, Ted Hilton of San Diego and Bill Siler of Concord friends at the country club make it a practice of hiring illegals .

HOW WILL ANY LAW STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING !!! I denounce and reject my self before I go on because what I have and will post may be more of last resort for me than first , having a Father that came to America as an Illegal who fought in WW II received two purple hearts and cried like a baby when he received his citizenship . I just wanted to say something about anchor babies . Even with the existing laws it would still work here , so the baby is born on America dirty , the baby can be left with family , foster care or adoption ……. Or the baby can get on the airplane or INS bus with the mother . If we get our sorry behinds out of the Middle East we would have lots of money to document and hire more INS agents to stop employers from hiring these illegals and not letting this baby Mama back into this country . Yeah that’s what I said , there has to be consequences for illegals to be here illegally and take our medical care , there are no free lunches .

NOT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS NOT HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS BUT TRILLIONS HAVE BEEN SPENT IN MIDDLE EAST WARS !!!! Let us bring these wonderful Americans home where they are loved and appreciated at arms length . Put some of this war money into the INS for more agents and to upgrade computers for ID by finger printing etc so we can jail the repeat offenders ( this is an existing law ) . Let the left and right fight it out on who is to blame for what and how to use the rest of the money , God knows we could use some help right here in the USA . All the while in the Middle East the USA was creating and/or honing the skills of other private American products like Halliburton , Blackwater , and DynCorp . We could have money to give Mexico a low cost loan to hire these killing machines . I am sure these American cans-of whoop-ass could not be made or copied better or cheaper south of the border . These private mercenary companies could get rid of the drug lords and gangsters and clean up the corruption ( who would know better about corruption ) without the politics of American troops . As American private enterprises , Neocons and Republican hanks are wetting their pants at the thought . Lets face it Mexico is a crap pool of graft and corruption .

Along with enforcing our laws the illegals south of the border need a home where they don’t have to worry about getting their heads cut off .

Nice Rant – how about we not try the old fashioned way and implement the law the way it was written? It seemed to have worked over the time period from 1850 – 1950 and suddenly the politicians got in the way.

This country can’t absorb an unlimited number of any nations discards searching for the silver lining. Our bountiful resources do have a limit and as the era of oil comes to a slow end, our natural resources will be our saving grace…as long as the lemmings from everywhere else on the planet don’t devour us whole.

Rein in the process and let’s get some semblance of control back over the process. End the free passes for the people from Central and South America. Canada has 30 million people whereas we have over 350 million people – could the immigration enforcement policies of the two countries play a role? Hmmmm??? Wake up America, and let’s start running this country instead of reacting to current affairs.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she

With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Emma Lazarus, 1883

It’s only a fair tale and a costume. They want to claim this as our heritage, they want to claim their fathers’ glory, but they do not want to pay the price… so they are stuck with the hollow shell of insincerity.

Doesn’t matter though. Most of what our masters do, I don’t like, but there’s one thing I do…. the people can cry and moan all they want, the people will still be allowed in. Legal or illegal doesn’t really matter to the rulers.

bearjennab casually wondered “Canada has 30 million people whereas we have over 350 million people – could the immigration enforcement policies of the two countries play a role?”

Nope. Canada has more liberal immigration policies then the United States, so “immigration enforcement policies” is not why it has fewer people. IMHO, the two main reasons why there are fewer people in Canada are that it’s F’ing cold up there and US employers hire most of the illegals before they can make it up to Canada.

For the record, many illegal aliens DO PAY TAXES when they work here. Where do you people get this idea that they don’t? Not only that, but they don’t get tax refunds.. so if THAT is the problem for you people, then take that up with the Federal Government and demand they return that money to state level .

That being said, these rules are typical racist initiatives motivated by hate. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support cutting off most financial aid and assistance and denying citizenship to babies born here. But it is wrong to deny basic access to things like driving. They should be free to come and go as they please, without getting harassed and questioned about their citizenship, and have access to driver’s licenses and emergency-only healthcare (including birth, minus the citizenship for the baby).

Just because some well meaning liberals have succeeded in passing laws that allow illegal immigrants access to financial aid and public services, and amnesty, does not mean that it is suddenly stop acting like Americans and start acting like fascist jerks and making life hell for people. If anything these are the things that serve as a test to whether or not we really value the things we say we do, primarily freedom. We don’t need to start restricting their movements, punishing employers, implementing biometrics that can be used against legitimate citizens, etc.. We just need to cut the services and let people go about their business.

I bet if more conservatives supported this approach, demonstrating that we stand for the values we claim to (hard work, sacrifice, freedom), instead of taking the fascist approach which frankly looks and sounds mighty racist, then we’d find a lot more support from the left on cutting the handouts.

We saw the same tactics arrayed against the genetically inferior Irish in the nineteenth century, same old crap from the same old source.

You forgot one of the most important values: RESPECT. How about respect for a society’s laws? How about respect for others who desire just as much as an illegal to be in the U.S. but is actually following the laws, rules, etc.?

It really is not being a fascist jerk to ask that people follow the laws, is it?

I mean, maybe I am old fashioned, but just because my neighbor leaves his front door open, doesn’t mean I get to start living in his kitchen, eating his food…

haha r0y I usually agree with you but I’m gonna have to put myself in the mind of a Mexican on this one and say how about the white people respecting their native ancestors here? I’m pretty sure that if I were mestizo, that would pretty much cancel out the RESPECT thing as far as living here. Now, beyond that I think a vast majority do respect the remainder of the laws and are just trying to keep a low profile and work to improve their family’s lot in life. Frankly, taking care of one’s family takes precedence over most of anything, including laws other than the basic natural laws (violence, murder, theft, etc..)

Hmmm. Maybe we should do some rebranding then. It’s kind of a mean trick if we call this a free country. That word, “free”, it has real meaning to some people; especially those who aren’t very worldly or educated. How unfortunate it is for them when they come here seeking it, to be told “Oh so sorry we’re all out of free today! You can get in line over there for the paid freedom though, the cost is generally between $6000 and $8000, if you don’t use an attorney. I mean, how different would those movies like Escape from East Berlin been if when the people got the “free world” they were told they had heard wrong. That’s fine if you guys have decided that, but let’s quit telling fairy tales in in all the marketing literature.

To be clear, I did not say that we should be handing out any benefits or allowing citizenship to babies born here. As a society we have a moral obligation to provide emergent care, though we did so before government paid for it and I’m not saying government should pay for it now.

Let me clarify my stance in a simpler way than above. I don’t care who lives in the U.S. nor how they got here, illegally or legally, as long they follow basic natural laws (no theft, murder, violence, etc..) and they pay their own way.

mkaney the way you paint conservatives as a bunch of racist / fascists you are starting to sound like typoqueen.

Just because someone wants fairness doesn’t make them what you describe. Maybe some skeletons in your closet?

That being said, as I said further down in the thread, how about them paying their way? What is fasist or racist about that Johnny Cochraine? Again fairness. I pay for my health. I pay my INCOME taxes. Don’t know what taxes you speak unless you are talking sales tax.

Last on the driving. Here is my problem with that. I was hit twice in the 80’s by unlicenced illegals locally. Minor fender bender but still damage. And guess what?? No insurance!! I just payed through mine as wasn’t worth all the paper work to get money that wasn’t there. That is FAIRNESS my friend. I am insured and I wish a lot more illegals where. THAT ISN’T RACIST!! That is REALITY!

Listen, there is not point in having a conversation, if upon deciding which one of the two “official” positions I support, you don’t actually read anything that I right, and just respond to what you assume I said.

READ AND THINK. This is not your television set.

I AM a conservative you dolt

I said everyone needs to pay their own way. No gets citizenship for their children simply because they are born here. But this is either a free country or it’s not. I have no problem with people coming here. There doesn’t need to be a huge process unless you want to be come an actual citizen. If there is, it’s not free and you’re telling a fairy tale.

I support ONLY providing emergent care because as a society we have ALWAYS done so, and I don’t think the government should pay for it.

People should be held responsible for what they do, not what they might do. If they commit a crime, make them serve the time. If the crime is an offense against another person, make them work out a restitution deal .The insurance issue is OUR FAULT because we elect a bunch of jackasses that cannot find effective ways of dealing with problems.

For example, I was hit as well by an illegal alien. Here’s what I told the DA: “How about you guys not prosecute him, and instead offer him a deal where he must pay restitution to me over a period of time. A hundred bucks a month even for 12 months for the $1200 deductible I had. Because if you prosecute him, he’s going to leave the country and you’re not going to get your conviction. His wife and children may be left behind, and I definitely won’t get any restitution, so nobody wins. This way, everyone get something and you see justice done.”

The DA looked at me like I was utterly insane. “Oh no we can’t do that, that’s now how things work.” and went on some condescending rant. The way him and the cop looked at me was just bizarre, like I was somehow now the enemy.

The same kind of B.S. would happen if you got hit by an AMERICAN uninsured motorist driving without a license, and there’s plenty of them.

Oh and they should get licenses and social security numbers, without hassle, so they can pay taxes and get their tax refunds.. Even though they won’t get most of the benefits of those taxes. Why would you want to not give someone here a license?

Dolt? What are you in third grade? Anyway you are right. There is no point in having a civilized conversation with someone without civility.

Hey hey hey! I leave the room and you start trashing me! I have never ‘painted’ or called conservatives a bunch of racist/fascists. Most of my family are cons, I certainly don’t feel that they are racists as a matter of fact I’m rather fond of them. As another matter of fact I usually disagree with the cons mkanney and r0y and I don’t believe them to be racist/fascists, on a rare occasion I might even agree with them. I do call the birther sect of you party racists and yes once in awhile in this forum I see racism/fascism raise it’s nasty head.

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes, most of them do pay their fair share.

Hmm guess it must be someone else always throwing around that word associate with Fasism, Neocons. Boy I thought that was you?? You where called out and you know it’s true. What else you got?

I didn’t say that I never call people those things. If they demonstrate those tendencies then yes, I will call them out on that but it is rare. As I said, I’d be surprised if I’ve ever called r0y or mkanny those things. So if you see someone that says something bigoted you think that no one should call them out on it, well I don’t agree and I don’t just throw those terms out all the times. I challenge you to find one time that I’ve called someone those things where it wasn’t warranted. I do call all the birthers bigots,,because they are. Hmm, maybe I said that to you but I don’t remember, are you a birther, is that why you are saying this? Did you make some racist remarks.

Your comment was funny how you turned your last sentence into a troll. I’ll let you go back to calling people, birthers, bigots, tea baggers etc. etc. because again I notice that when you can’t make an arguement that is all you have is name calling.

I don’t say that people don’t have the right to say what they want, it’s just to bad that we don’t have a little more civility. I don’t agree with most of what you say a lot but do find your points can be interesting. But the thing that will make me want to stop reading mid sentence is when you start throwing out name calling. I know your frustration. Trust me I want to say a lot of things about the left but if we as people with different opinions can’t tone down our rederic, how will any of us EVER know what the other side might be thinking?

“Your comment was funny how you turned your last sentence into a troll.”

What are you talking about!? In my last sentence I asked you if you had said anything racist as I was inquiring why you are going off on me over this when I rarely call people fascists or racists. I’m honestly trying to figure out why you claim that I just randomly throw out those names because I don’t. Go find a post where I throw out those terms so randomly as you seem to claim, I challenge you to do so. You won’t because you can’t. I can’t figure out where you are coming from. I have never ran away from argument or used name calling to simply argue a point. Once in awhile someone will throw out a racist or fascist tone and then I’ll tell it as it is.

First, I will not dignify the birthers with any form respect just as I wouldn’t do so for the KKK. But lets just say that I thought the birthers were really cool, what should I call them? Honestly what is the PC term that you would use to call people that don’t believe that Obama is an American citizen, should I type out that whole sentence each time? Birther and bigot go hand in hand so I won’t apologize for calling them what they are but I would like to know what someone could call them without hurting your feelings.

‘Tea baggers’,or ‘baggers’ so what, what’s the big deal? They came up with their name, not me. Would it make you feel better if I called them ‘members of the Tea Party’, does that not hurt your feelings? I have no patience for overly sensitive people. Put on your big boy pants and debate or argue but deflect on me. You’re the one that brought me into this for absolutely no reason.

” it’s just to bad that we don’t have a little more civility.” I have a name for that, ‘hypocrisy’.

Well let’s put the scenero out there another way in sterotyping. You say that anyone who believes the birther on Obama is a racist. I think there is some questionable things there. Not overly convinced on his status. Now that said, I’m sure your rushing to your keyboard to call me a racist bigot.

Now if I like Herman Cain, Alex Keys, Condi Rice, Clarenace Thomas, Colin Powell, J.C. Watts and would vote for any and all, I must be one confussed screwed up rasist. The differance is they are CONSERVATIVES. Just because I don’t like your guy in office doesn’t make me a racist MS. Johnny Cochrine. I don’t like your guy because he’s a posser with absolutely NO experience and it shows.

I know a LOT of conservatives that don’t like Obama and I get tired of your’s and others worn out arguement that if you don’t like him your a racist. Oh and all those conservatives I mentioned would vote for any of the above people I mentioned, for the same reasons as I.

Again my point is you paint everyone that doesn’t fit into your world view here as tea baggers, bigots, racists etc. Again I have a lot of names for the left but majority of time keep it to myself. So again how about civil conversation?

” I get tired of your’s and others worn out argument that if you don’t like him your a racist.”

OMG your have a reading comprehension problem. Half of my family are cons, I have never, not once called all people that don’t like Obama racists. Some of my friends, and a few of my sibs don’t like Obama, trust me, they aren’t racists. I don’t believe that willie, r0y and mkanny care for Obama , I don’t believe them to be racist. I am trying my hardest to not call you names but you are lying, is that what you want to be? I have not called the majority of cons in this forum racists and they don’t like Obama, if you say that I did then you are simply a liar. I’m starting to understand your bitterness though. Obviously from your post you are a birther so I probably did call you a racist.

I don’t care about Cain Rice etc., yeah yeah yeah, we’ve all heard the ‘I have a friend that’s black’. How many other presidents get stalked to see if they were citizens, do you know have more proof that McCain is a citizan? You are one of those birthers that doesn’t believe the Governor of Hawaii, the Chief of Staff of the hospital, nurses, neighbors, friends, women in the same hospt. that gave birth at the same time, the LEGAL live certificate of birth etc. as proof. And you STILL aren’t convinced. Nothing would convince you, you hate the man and that’s it. Wonder why? Now I get it, now I know why you say that I call everyone racist, because I must have called YOU one. Hey, I’m old, I must have forgotten that you are one of those,,,

I’m done with you. You right about one thing, I can’t have a civil discussion with you because I detest your type. I hope you get to read this before I get booted off.

Seeing as no place to reply to your last post I’m repling under mine. Yes I read your last one that you wanted me to see before it might get booted (which I doubt no bad language)

Anyway I’ll let you have the last word so we don’t take up anymore of CCN’s moderaters time. Thanks Mr. or Ms. M. for letting us have some back and forth discussion.

What else you got?

the highly unpopular fifth amendment , it’s mine I took it. and a definition that is useful compact and correct. Fascism: Palingenetic. Ultra-nationalist. Populism.

Nailed it again.

So, instead of getting a license, they just drive illegally… while here… illegally…

And instead of getting financial assistance, they’ll just use the emergency rooms… oh wait… no, they’ll scam EBT… oh wait.

What exactly would change?

(that was all sarcasm, by the way…)

I hope it makes the ballot and passes. I have said for years to friends, one way to stem the flow is STOP GIVING AWAY EVERYTHING!

I completely agree with you! These immigrants dont pay taxes when they work here illegally, while also getting cash-aid, food stamps, and medi-cal paid by our tax dollars! This is not fair. I know a couple people now struggling because of the economy, but could not qualify for section 8 because the list was too long! I wonder how many on the list are actually legal citizens!!! Our friends and family cant get assistance because it is taken up by these illegals and coming over here pregnant so that their babies born here can be legal. What crap!! This needs to stop!!

Where do you want me to sign??

I know of a mother with 3 children all under the age of 8 that can’t get into housing because the list is so long and I know of two families of illegals living in section 8 housing. In both cases they are all illegal except for the last anchor baby they have. That baby is their free ticket and our own citizens with children are standing out in the cold waiting. I’ll vote this through gladly in fact I’ll help to gather signatures.

There needs to be a multi step approach to this problem. There is some validity in r0y’s sarcasm above and as such, simply denying services is not a total solution.

1. Only citizens and valid guest workers are eligible for government services.

2. With some of the money saved in step 1, open an office in Tijuana to validate and document guest workers. Require biometric authentication to stop credential sharing.

3. Agressively pursue businesses that hire illegal workers. 1st time caught = $5000 per illegal worker, 2nd time = $25,000 per illegal worker, 3rd time = $100,000 per illegal worker and loss of business license for 90 days.

4. Contract with private 3rd party in Mexico to incarcerate illegals caught here and those committing crimes.

5. Guest workers who live and work here should be given a path to citizenship if they have paid their taxes and stayed out of trouble for 10 years. If they are caught here illegally, they are permanently banned from pursuing citizenship.

This nation was built on immigration and there is nothing wrong with it, when done correctly. The current system is broken and needs to be fixed.

The problem with your list is it is very easy to get forged credentials, and appear to be a legal citizen (or, if implemented, a legal guest worker). Biometrics be damned, the black market WILL find a way to scam it. Then #3 really falls apart, as most that hire illegals do not know they are! Most illegals work for a 3rd party that farms them out. Go after that 3rd party and they’re gone like the wind!

I agree that we were built on immigration, but the government is so inefficient and inept at running ANY program, that the crooks will run circles around any new program, just like they are doing with the current programs. I wish I had an answer, or *the* answer, but it is a complicated problem.

You are correct about trying to scam the system.

I think that a private agency serving roughly a county sized area could be used to source labor needs. Those who work through the agency would have to have a card obtained through the office in Tijuana, and then have a live scan for finger prints and retina scan for eyes. If all 3 match (card, fingers, and eye), then they can be outsourced to farmers and such. If the current employment agencies wanted to purchase the biometric equipment, they could be used in this capacity.

Get caught providing an undocumented or unconfirmed laborer and your employment agency gets fined and permanently banned from providing services.