Initiative could allow one million illegal immigrants to avoid deportation

December 5, 2011

A California ballot initiative proposed for next fall would allow nearly one million undocumented immigrants to live and work openly with little or no fear of deportation.

The California Opportunity and Prosperity Act would allow qualifying illegal immigrants to get tax identification numbers. The initiative also directs state officials to ask the federal government to forgo apprehension, detention and exportation of qualifying persons, their spouses, and their dependents.

Supporters contend the measure could generate $325 million in new tax revenue.

To qualify for protection under the initiative, undocumented immigrants are required to have lived in California for a minimum of four years, have no felony convictions, and speak or be learning to speak English.

Democratic Assemblyman Felipe Fuentes proposed the initiative which was approved for signature-gathering last week.

To qualify for the November 2012 ballot, supporters of the initiative need to collect 504,760 signatures by April 16, according to the California Secretary of State.

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First problem with this is that California needs to ask the Feds to not deport. Being a national problem, they are not going to give illegals in CA special treatment. It is the marijuana thing all over again. Second, there won’t be any new taxes because they are being taxed for every hour worked and everything they buy now, so where is the net gain especially if it is only projected at $324/person? Third, four years is not even close enough for a residency requirement especially with the chances for fraudulent claims. Newt suggested 25 and he is getting clobbered. Fourth, without the border being sealed this will be a magnet, as mentioned, plus the legislature will increase the quota over time. Also, who picks the million? Talk about chances for fraud and payoffs! Fifth, this does not solve the problem of illegal immigrants bringing their families across the border many of whom do not assimilate into society confirmed by the very large school dropout rate, drain on social services, and gang problems.

We need a sensible Guest Worker Program where men and women, with their families staying in their home country, work 10 to 11 months a year under a strong wage and working conditions program funded by the users (farmers) with the requirement they go home for a month or two each year. After a couple of years, they will have made enough money, like many of the Braceros, to set themselves up back home where they really want to be and be replaced by others on an as needed basis. Plus, the crops will be picked. Don’t get me started on “If farmers paid enough, Armeicans will do ther job”. We have already put that dog to bed.

So you think it’s possible to send the million illegal immigrants back to Mexico, those that have kids that have been in school for most of their lives and those that are established? If so how do we go about ’rounding’ them up. I agree about the guest worker program. But IMO we can’t send back those that are already here. I do wonder what your plan would be for those people. And you are right, it doesn’t address border security. But that’s a different topic.

I am saying this specific initiative doesn’t work because of the what I have pointed out. What we do with the illegal immigrants now here is important and needs to be addressed but this is not the instrument to do it. We need a national policy not a California one. We need to recognize the families that have been here a long time and have contributed to the well being of our state. I have pointed out before that it is impractical to round up and deport all 12 million plus illegal immigrants. There has to be a gut check one of these days about the problem and unfortunately it won’t come until after the elections – if then.

I agree with the guest worker program. I disagree about the current illegal workers paying taxes. At least in the agriculture industry, in my experience, it is under the table.

The southern international border needs to be secured, period. We need to bring our troops home from abroad and deploy them to the border. We can’t keep out illegals (from any country, some of whom may be coming here to harm our country) or drugs. The cartels have set up shop throughout the U.S., and they do home deliveries of drugs, especially black tar heroin. (See “Black Tar Heroin: A Lethal Business Model Invades America,”

Hey, you’re taking my idea about bring our troops home and putting them on the border, I thought that I held the patent on that.

I agree with your post except for the part where you say that the farm workers don’t pay taxes. It used to be that most of the pay was under the table but not anymore, in recent years this practice has changed.. The govt. has really cracked down on this. All of the farms are monitored for this and it’s not worth if for the farmers to take the chance of paying under the table now. Most of the illegal immigrants are now using fake SS so they are paying taxes but don’t receive the benefits from paying into SS.

Gotta back typoqueen on this one. There isn’t a farmer with any size of a crew, even just a couple full time, that would chance not withholding and paying the taxes. We are so hounded by the government in so many ways that we have become so transparent that we glow at night! Now with all the prolific phony documents out there, the Feds and States are loving it because the money goes into the great black hole general fund and they know no one is going to claim it so it is funny money for them to with what they choose.

Our troops are especially equipped to monitor both borders with drones, manpower, weapons, and all the other gadget they are bringing home. Plus they need a job and we need to secure our borders. A little isolationism, building up our own security, defeating the cartels on both sides of the border, increasing our worldwide intelligence agencies, and keeping a strong armed force is what we need to be doing.

We really don’t need bases in Europe, maybe one or two. If we moved a few bases and put them on our borders, not only would we secure our borders but we would also give a tremendous boost the economies in the areas where the bases are located. I’d rather give that added revenue to California, New Mexico, AZ and even Texas than say Italy or worse yet Afghanistan. That would be killing two birds with one stone.

Farmer, I also have farmers in my family, if you’re a local farmer you probably know some of them. Anyway, I recently had a conversation about the all the regulations. He was bugged by those regulations and it causes him a bit of grief but he said it was okay, that he was dealing with it. A point that I found interesting is that he told me that when his stalk of broccoli or head of lettuce is sold say in Florida or even over seas that they can track down not only the farm but the actual row and even where in that row that that one piece of produce was picked. He said that when we see these outbreaks of e-coli that it shouldn’t be so hard to track down exactly where it came from in a pretty timely manner. So that leads me to wonder why it takes so long for these Salinas farmers to keep having theses issues and why it takes so long to find the source, it seems like a lot of these issues are from that area…oops sorry everyone for the O.T., I just think that’s kinda interesting.

Gotta back typoqueen on this one. There isn’t a farmer with any size of a crew, even just a couple full time, that would chance not withholding and paying the taxes. We are so hounded by the government in so many ways that we have become so transparent that we glow at night! Now with all the prolific phony documents out there, the Feds and States are loving it because the money goes into the great black hole general fund and they know no one is going to claim it so it is funny money for them to with what they choose.

Our troops are especially equipped to monitor both borders with drones, manpower, weapons, and all the other gadget they are bringing home. Plus they need a job and we need to secure our borders. A little isolationism, building up our own security, defeating the cartels on both sides of the border, increasing our worldwide intelligence agencies, and keeping a strong armed force is what we need to be doing.

I am not averse to a guest worker program where there are not enough workers to fill the job positions. But, in some ways, I think Californians, and Norteamericanos in general need to get as much as they give in trade:

1. If they can get jobs up here, we should be able to get jobs down there.

2. If they can earn money and pay little or no tax, we should be able to work down there and pay little or no tax.

3. If they can truck their goods up here with little or no tariffs, we should be able to truck our stuff down there in the same way.

4. If their education up here is federally funded, we should be able to enroll in their universities and have our education funded by them as well.

5. If they can own property up here, we should be able to own property down there.

6. Every person coming into the country should be identified and provided with a national id card.

Same goes for any of us living down there.

7. If they can obtain benefits in any form up here, we should be given the same benefits down there. This applies to medical care, unemployment insurance, food stamps, child care, etc.

8. If the perception is that they cannot afford to subsidize us in the same way we provide benefits to them, they we should learn why this is so. The countries to the south of us are rich in natural resources, they have developed a growing middle class as industry and education increase proportionate to the opportunities provided by trade with other countries.

9. If we are serious about eradicating the drug trade up here, then we should stop facilitating the drug trade down there by selling them arms.

10. If they have made the effort to study our economics and politics, then we should do the same concerning their economics and politics.

11. If they have taken the time and effort to keep their citizens informed about our immigration policies, then we should learn the same about them.

12. If they have progressed in technology so that they are able to compete in the telcommunications industry, and provide very sophisticated and informative daily news programs about what is going on in our country and how it affects them, then we should do the same concerning their country.

Because we have a common border, we need each other as allies and trade partners. That does not mean we have to give everything away. We need to stop viewing them as the “poor, stupid relations.” They are far from that. We need to support common goals, respect each others’ language and acknowledge the limits of what we are willing to provide. If they can’t give money, then they can trade natural resources and permit profit through development.

Development should be based on best practices to conserve and protect their natural resources. We can’t be polluting down there when we know how devasting our industrial practices have been in the past. They can learn from us and we can learn from them.

Seguro que si!

The problem with this proposal is that the border is not sealed. This would be a magnet for illegals not only from Mexico, but from all over the world. The amount they would be paying in would not cover the services that California would have to provide.

How is California going to verify that people have been here 4 years. They’re not. Someone could say that they lived at your residence for 3 years then moved to their new residence for one year. Is California going to check to see if they lived at your residence for 3 years–no. They will take the person’s word for it. They will accept a “friend'”s letter that the person was employed for 4 years.

It’s not that hard to prove that they’ve lived here for 4 years. They can speak to employers, schools and verify drivers licenses. That’s just off the top of my head, I’m sure that there are other ways as well.

And, just how many people does it take to speak to employers, schools, and verify drivers licenses to document 1 million people? Now, here’s a money saver if I ever saw one. Speedy process, too. And – verify drivers licenses – those documents that were obtained with fraudulent ID in the first place?

And what do you suggest?

The only way would be to encourage all illegals to immediately apply for government assistance as soon as they cross the border. Then, there is a record of how long they have been here. Do you think that California can handle that?

Otherwise, California will simply take the word of whoever applies. We don’t have the resources to check.

Citizen, thanks for pointing out that “We don’t have the resources to check.”

Precisely. Such detailed checks are simply not possible. They can’t get that information, and could not trust it were it provided.

This is a classic case of government stepping beyond its capabilities.

Why would they want to do that?

What do you suggest we do with those that live here?

Until we seal the border, there is no point in talking about what we do with the illegals here. Seal the border first, then set up a guest worker program similar to the one Canada has (it does not lead to citizenship and does not include families). Then we can deal with the people who came here illegally, and the people who are here because they overstayed their visas, etc. These are two very different types, one is uneducated and needy, the other is usually educated with specific job skills.

They need to be fairly treated. Treat them them the same as other illegal imigrants and law breakers. All treated the same. Fairness.

I think that is becoming more and more a moot point. More illegal workers are leaving America than entering America, and it has been that way for a few years now.

The racist nincompoopery in Arizona and Alabama have just increased the number of illegal workers leaving the U.S.

I’m all for allowing seasonal work passes as necessary but to just allow 1,000,000 workers along with their wives and 8 kids permanent residence, I think not. This will cost us dearly and it’s just another ploy to over run the state with illegals who suck up our tax $$. I’ll be voting NO WAY JOSE.

They are already here, they’re not going anywhere. I agree that they need to do something about this influx of people crossing the boarder but we aren’t going to kick out those that live here. By doing this we can keep an eye on them, it will be easier to make sure that they have car insurance. It might make them not afraid to get medical insurance. There are benefits but again, our govt. needs to do something about letting everyone in the world including drug cartels and terrorists just walk accross our borders.

Get medical insurance when they can go to the ER for FREE? What a joke, you’re fooling yourself.

I have to laugh when they say the people must either speak English or be learning to speak English. So anybody can claim that they’re learning to speak English. I don’t see any deadline or test in place for those who claim they’re learning, ha. The LaRaza Group that has infiltrated our “gummint” encourages them to refuse to speak English even if they can!

What we need to do is require proof of citizenship to draw off our coffers and that includes accessing our EXPENSIVE public school system. PROBLEM SOLVED and they will go home.

Most of their kids do speak English. Where’s your link that backs up your claim about La Raza ‘encouraging’ them to ‘refuse’ to speak English?

I don’t want a bunch of sick people here and I don’t care how they got here, some of us feel it’s important for all people in this country to get medical care. I want my kids to be safe from communicable diseases. Plus I want my kids to learn that we are humane country that doesn’t allow people to simply die because they can’t get medical care.

Some of us don’t want more crime. Less education=more crime.

I guess you missed my point about how they get all the free care they want at the ER. They get better care than many of us Citizens can afford. How many of us can afford to pay for an ambulance rather than drive ourselves or simply go to the ER when we don’t feel well?

Or maybe you missed the point that they will go home if we stop with the freebies and they will stay home, so what is the worry?

As for LaRaza, just google them, they’re are the biggest racists since the KKK only it’s legal and it’s about the GRINGO’s. They (LaRaza) should all be tried for treason but instead, Obama funds them with millions of $$ and appoints them to the Supreme Court where they make racist statements (Sotomayer).

I am familiar with La Raza. I simply asked for a link that shows that they encourage Hispanics to refuse to speak English. You might be right, perhaps they stated that, but before you make such a drastic claim you should be able to provide a link as proof. I’m not going to get into a battle about La Raza. I just want to show whether this is a factual claim or whether it is fiction derived from a dislike or even hatred of illegal immigrants.

I could spend quite a while looking through ALL the LaRaza CRAP finding where I read that statement. In the mean time I would be getting more irritated by the minute having to filter through all their BS looking for the link. I’m not going to look for the link and couldn’t care if you believe that it’s out there “LOUD and CLEAR” or not.

Cindy, using the ER as a family doctor is a huge waste of health-care funds.

Leaving them with untreated medical problems, especially infectious diseases, is REALLY not an option.

Most of the La Raza groups associated with universities have retracted or changed their web sites in recent years to remove the controversial topics such as the takeover of the American Southwest by “the race”. I have been tracking them.

Does anyone here remember the Bracero Program? I grew up in the agricultural areas of the California desert. My family made their living in Agriculture, and I have very favorable impressions from both the farmers and the Braceros during the early 50’s. It worked! Illegal Immigration does not work, and will eventually come to a head.

I don’t remember it, but I learned about it in college. From what I read, and from what I was taught at Cal Poly, yes, the Bracero program DID work.

People who want to get rid of illegal immigration without first accessing another cheap form of ag labor, IMO, often are not aware at the huge price increase that would bring in the food we eat.

There are no easy answers. The Bracero program would be the best, IMO, but there must be lobbyists working against it because it is such an obvious solution, there is no reason for the government not to institute it.

No mention of the NAU (North American Union). I would assume that the two are connected.

The slave power is obviously not going to cut off its supply of cheap labor, unlike what was done back in 1808 with the termination of the Transatlantic Slave Trade.

Karen’s going for the hot button articles today. I’m sure these last two will have lots of posts and people arguing.

“Raw meat” time for the teabaggers. Grrr!

So true.

New tax revenue, huh? No, thank you. I’ll vote no.

Editor – there is a correction to made to the line in the article:

“Supporters contend the measure could generate $325 million in new tax revenue”

It should read:

“Supporters contend the measure could generate 1,000,000 votes for the party promoting the initiative.

The public voting for hundreds of feel-good financially foolish propositions over the years is what got California into its fiscal morass to begin with. What the backers of these propositions know is that the California voting public consists of a bunch of fiscally ignorant bleeding hearts who will vote for anything under the promise, “it won’t cost anything,” even though they get taken for that same ride over, and over, and over, and over……

So, one million stay with no fear of deportation for only $325.00 per person per year. How many will qualify for food stamps, subsidized housing, medical, etc.? Sounds like a bargain to me, where do I sign up? Oh, right, I’m already a citizen. crap. never mind.

It’s OK, Shel. All you have to do is go to another country and weasel in the back door. OH WAIT! None of the stable countries worth living in allow illegal aliens (That is you, Shel) to weasel in and take a position on the teat.

I guess you will have to sneak into a EuroZone country. OH WAIT! They are in worse shape that we are.

I guess you are just stuck being a self supported American citizen.

European countries have their fair share of illegal immigrants from other countries, I feel that England is worth living in. Although gas is $10.00 a gallon there, the Brits are not in worse shape than we are and they have had a huge influx of illegal immigrants.

Try getting a Doctor’s appointment in England. Unless you’re dying it is at least a 4 month wait. My friends from England have horror stories about their Socialized medical program.

The Liverpool way.

I know quite a few people in the UK. Yes their medical care isn’t perfect, it has it’s problems but most of them wouldn’t trade with us. The only things better in the US regarding quality is that we have lower cancer rates and less waiting periods. But other than that we have shorter life spans and higher infant mortality than the UK so I guess waiting longer pays off. BTW for emergencies there is immediate care. Here’s a list rated by WHO of the best countries for getting medicall care. It’s pretty sad when so many people are willing to settle for 37th.

1 France

2 Italy

3 San Marino

4 Andorra

5 Malta

6 Singapore

7 Spain

8 Oman

9 Austria

10 Japan

11 Norway

12 Portugal

13 Monaco

14 Greece

15 Iceland

16 Luxembourg

17 Netherlands

18 United Kingdom*

19 Ireland

20 Switzerland

21 Belgium

22 Colombia

23 Sweden

24 Cyprus

25 Germany

26 Saudi Arabia

27 United Arab Emirates

28 Israel

29 Morocco

30 Canada

31 Finland

32 Australia

33 Chile

34 Denmark

35 Dominica

36 Costa Rica

37 United States of America*

38 Slovenia

Hey, at least we’re above Slovenia.

Typo, are you serious? How did the financial stability of a country get equated with Medical care and life span?

Now honestly, which of those countries would you rather have your life dependent upon?

Yes, the topic strayed when you said: “None of the stable countries worth living in allow illegal aliens”. Then I responded that other countries do have problems with illegals. Then Cindy said: “Try getting a Doctor’s appointment in England.” That is how it happened, hope that helps you.

Which of those countries would I rather have my life span dependent upon,,,If I really want to live longer, which I do, any of the 36 above me. But I wouldn’t mind getting my medical care in France or Italy, sounds nice to me. A lot of my family lives in Euro., I would move there in a New York minute if it weren’t for my family and business here. I also do love the Central Coast but at this point I wouldn’t mind moving there that much. The health care would play a factor in that. I don’t have the love for this country that I used to.

ITA. One of my ancestors was a founding father, and I would gladly move to England.

Hey, if I sold some of his relics, I bet I could afford to move there!

“the Brits are not in worse shape than we are”

Oh, you so funny!

Statistically, chances are that you’d live longer in the UK and your baby would also have a better chance of living there than here. Funny to some.

Since Obama started his Operation Manhood: Libya, Yemen and Syria, there have been a LOT of illegal immigrants entering Europe. These people are so desperate to leave they use the worst, most flimsy boats, and they find hundreds of dead bodies every day in the Mediterranean. They capture many more live immigrants trying to enter the country, once they’ve made the crossing.

i don’t know how Europe is going to handle the influx of desperate people. It is really tragic.

I doubt many of us could survive the routes illegal immigrants have to take to get here, nor the conditions they must suffer once they are here.