Elementary school students suspended for kill list and sexual threats
May 25, 2009 11:26 am
By KAREN VELIE
A group of parents allege Santa Margarita Elementary School officials have failed to provide a safe environment and have chosen to keep their children home until their concerns are addressed.
After numerous complaints, two Santa Margarita Elementary students have been suspended in the past few weeks for threats against other students. A fourth grader was sent home for producing a hit list and a third grader was suspended for making sexually violent threats against his classmates.
CalCoastNews has chosen to leave out the names of the parents and the students involved in the incidents in order to protect the children’s privacy.
More than a handful of parents said their children have been traumatized by a series of incidents that began on May 13. Parents described a student’s graphic sexual threats against other students in his classroom.
Officials and parents claim Principal Melanie Karp has been slow to respond to complaints made by parents and students and has minimized the situation.
School officials are mandated reporters and as such are required by law to report these types of criminal threats and certain suspicions of child abuse immediately, and follow up within 48 hours with a written report, said Child Protective Services Social Worker Desilyn King.
“This all needs to be dealt with for the best interests of all, not just my child,” a parent said voicing her concern for the safety of the aggressor as well as her progeny. “My child hasn’t wanted to go to school.”
Several parents have opted to keep their children home until school officials can assure them their children are being protected. Parents allege Karp has threatened to turn them in for truancy if their children do not return to school.
“Our first and foremost goal is the safety of our students,” said Atascadero Unified School District Superintendent John Rogers. “It is awful to deal with providing the appropriate resources to help the individual student and balance the need for other parents to be assured their child’s safety is foremost.”
Principal Karp was unavailable for comment.
On May 13, the third-grade aggressor was suspended for three days and sent home to a parent who is on the Megan’s Law sex offenders list. Upon his return, he blamed a student for a beating he claims to have received as punishment for the suspension, sources said.
An attempt to find out if a report regarding the alleged beating was filed with Child Protective Services was denied due to privacy issues.
He then threatened to shove items into the complaining students’ rectums and/or vaginas. As a result, Karp assigned the child to a half day in-office suspension before placing him back in the classroom. Due to parent complaints, on May 20, the boy was moved to another classroom comprised of second and third graders.
Parents also voiced concerns that the child’s mother, a registered sex offender known to commit lewd acts against children under 14 years of age, is permitted to attend school functions.
“They recently put a black metal fence around the perimeter of the school to protect our children,” a parent said. “Then they let a sex offender in the front door.”
There is a common misconception that laws prohibit registered sex offenders from encroaching on school grounds. However, according to California code, sex offenders may be allowed on their child’s campus for a variety of reasons. In addition, not all sex offenders are listed on Megan’s list which is primarily for habitual or violent offenders, said a San Luis Obispo County Sheriff deputy.
While at Santa Margarita Elementary School, the boy’s mother is required to register and is then provided an escort while on school grounds, Rogers said.
In addition, on Thursday May 14, school officials discovered a fourth grader’s kill list along with a visual depiction of a student’s demise. Five days elapsed before the mandatory threat assessment protocol was implemented, sources said.
Following parent objections to a lack of concern over the hit list, on May 19, sheriff deputies were called to the school and the boy’s home was searched, sources added.
The child remained in the classroom, shoulder to shoulder with children on his kill list, until he was officially suspended on May 20.
The district has adopted a threat assessment protocol, a flow chart to be implemented by the principal. During the week following the threat, four psychologists did an evaluation to determine if the written warning was a transient or a true threat, Rogers added.
“I can’t comment on what we have done with any one student,” Rogers replied when asked what actions had been taken.
Last year, Karp was sentenced to two days in county jail for driving under the influence. Her blood alcohol was .12, one and a half times the legal limit. She is slated to retire at the end of this school year.
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Member Opinions:
By: schoolbomber on 8/11/09
in nevadA IOWA THERE WAS SEXUAL HAZING ON THE BASKETBALL TEAM
By: schoolbomber on 8/6/09
the school is crazy for just suspending the kids they should of expelled them. Welll at least they did not cover it up like they did in nevada iowa when a kid was found with diagrams of how to blow up his school and the white house. he even had made a bomb and put in the principels office.he was missing 1 or 2 things from it. if he had not been missing them it would of gone off. the school did not even get people out of the school and did not tell the parents of the kids.
By: OsborneCox on 6/4/09
I didn’t attend the meeting, nor have I heard about what transpired. I’ll ask around tomorrow and post what I find out, unless someone beats me to it. I don’t want to give away my age here, but we used to have these things called newspapers and they protected citizens against having to mount their own fact-finding missions.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 6/4/09
As far as I know a great big NOTHING has happened.
By: OsborneCox on 6/2/09
The AUSD schoolboard meets tonight, but given this issue involves students and personnel, I would imagine the Santa Margarita item will be closed session.
By: yelapop on 6/2/09
Karen: Have you received any word about whether the district has reprimanded Karp or if the children are back at school? I’m wondering if this was well handled once these issues were made public. Anyone?
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 6/2/09
I would be interested in finding out more information and details from LongTimeLocal in regards to the comment about how the school district administration has two factions…those that are incompetent and those that are corrupt. How did you arrive at this conclusion? (I totally agree with you, by the way, I would just be interested in knowing why or what has made you feel this way.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 6/2/09
Thank-you Long Time Local!
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 6/1/09
Osborne I am on the floor laughing. My wife would love your statement about the spelling. I am doomed without spell check. Hahahaha. She is probably the best at spelling I have ever known and when she profs. my writing she cringes. (Note cringes should be correct I just asked her. Hehe)
Thanks for not beating that dead horse. I love people that will equate spelling with intelligence. I know quite a few people with high I.Q’s who’s spelling is worse than mine.
Thanks for understanding that a person is trying to be as objective as possible. As you are also in that same vein.
Oh and I am still working on getting to the library on the 77′ article. ;-)
By: OsborneCox on 6/1/09
LTL, I’m not a screamer, OK. If you don’t share my assessment of the AUSD board of trustees, so be it. At the same time, I hope you appreciate the fact that I gave the board a positive endorsement after measuring it against other boards in the county, and would invite you to do the same.
In the meantime, I do share your assessment of BeenThere. I’ve read many of his posts pertaining to issues I have firsthand knowledge of, and I salute him for sizing up situations with greater accuracy than this site’s reporters and for his willingness to put in the time and effort to reach his own conclusions. I’d make fun of his atrocious spelling if it weren’t for the fact that I myself can’t count past 10 without taking my shoes off.
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By: Longtimelocal on 6/1/09
I believe “SomeoneWhoKnows” truly does. If the Board was indeed acting in the best interest of the students of the district they would not tolerate the incompetence of the administration. Parents have the right, in fact the responsibility, to question the actions of the principal and the superintendent and deserve not to ignored or treated like you are wasting their precious time. Demand to be heard. . .attend every single school board meeting. They get away with this type of behavior because they have absolutely no oversight, no media coverage. It’s a wonderful little empire for them.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 6/1/09
I have no problem with the AUSD board members and have had limited, if any, communication with them. However, one would think that the AUSD board members would be aware of the problems that exist with district level administrators and some principals. It appears that the top level administrators and the SMES principal think of this issue as nothing more than an overactive, complaining group of problem parents. If they were aware, then I would imagine that instead of extending the contracts of top level officials they would be advising the HR department to begin the process of looking for new top level administrators.
By: Longtimelocal on 6/1/09
Be specific. . . .
By: OsborneCox on 6/1/09
LTL — To repeat a previous post, which compared AUSD’s trustees with those at other districts, 1) they are the most dedicated in doing what’s best for children; and, 2) they are most in tune with what is going on with the schools.
What have they done to make you think they are corrupt?
By: Longtimelocal on 6/1/09
What, exactly, have the “trustees” done that you have found impressive?
By: OsborneCox on 6/1/09
SOMEONE… I may be misinterpreting you here, but it sounds like you are targeting AUSD administration and I am defending the school district’s board of trustees, in which case we don’t have an argument. I have only minimal experience with the administration, so I’m not in a position to judge it either way. I am, however, extremely impressed with the team of Kuhnle, Clickard, Galvan, Dodge, Twisselman, Switzer and Gunther and would consider any claim that they are corrupt too ridiculous to respond to. That’s the group that should be running your city, in my opinion.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/31/09
Dear Osborne Cox,
I couldn’t disagree with YOU more. Corrupt is perhaps a word that is far more harsh than I would choose. Incompetent, uninformed, and generally disinterested with the workings of district activities outside the walls of the Administration Office is a better description. I use these words to describe the AUSD Administration not the AUSD Board members but remember a school board is only as good as the superintendent who brings information to them. The school district is far from being “one big happy family” as one board member described recently. Perhaps one of the reasons that the administration is misinformed is due to the fear that seems to run rampant with parents and probably teachers and staff members also. Parents and teachers are FEARFUL of discussing, questioning, complaining, sometimes even just speaking… etc….fearful of being ignored or labeled as “just another group of parents who are causing problems.” Hummm, now that I think about it, corrupt is an accurate description.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/31/09
I hope with this story and the ones also on the financial mess from all the lending, that all the powers that be (i.e. D.A. officers, etc.) get all the facts and NO circumstantional evidence, so we can nail the door shut.
It always worries me that some slick talking defence attorney will come in and get people off, no matter what the evidence. Just look at O.J. Only two people could have same DNA and the jury let him off??
Nothing is guaranteed. With that said I hope they get to the bottom of all this crap but to do that they need all the facts and the facts have to come from the core group involved.
That is the reality and yes reality sucks some times.
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By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/31/09
Dear BeenThereDoneThat,
News Flash! I think you will soon find out that everything WAS NOT done to the “letter of the law”. If everything was done to the “letter of the law” then there wouldn’t be as much concern as there has been. The biggest concern here is that the principal, ONCE AGAIN, did not follow district policy and procedure regarding the investigation of the two young boys involved in this situation. Additionally, the principal FAILED miserably, ONCE AGAIN, to communicate in a timely fashion with parents, staff, and district office personnel. However, this fact is not surprising to many of the concerned parties because the principal does not seem to be capable of establishing effective, respectful, positive relationships with other human beings. The final straw, was when KSBY interviewed the principal for the news and she did nothing by CYA and lie. This fact is now clearly established— I just don’t know if this fact will surface because the “personnel file” of the principal is NOT a public record. I do beleive that soon someone will step forward and be a “Provider Of The Truth” and I am not referring to person who has this as a blogging name! Remember to look for the BIG picture. There is more to this story then the two young boys who “got in trouble” at school.
And Hello Sheriff’s Department! Why wasn’t the officer who was sent out to the school site, in the first place able to provide more assistance. Typical!
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/31/09
Dear BeenThereDoneThat,
In my last posted comment when I wrote, “Been There, Done That,” I was not referring to your Blogging name. I was actually using the phrase “Been There, Done That” in a response to Scarlet who suggested that parents visit the Superintendents office. My reply to her was “Been There. Done That” as in “I have been to the Superintendents Office, I have done what you suggested” with, unfortunately, not a pleasant response. It was the Superintendent who used the “Broken Record” Technique on me. I just wanted to clear this up because I though you might have thought that I was referring to you when, in reality, I was not. Hope this makes sense to you. Thanks!
By: Longtimelocal on 5/31/09
Just keep drinking that koolaid. . . .
By: OsborneCox on 5/31/09
LONGTIMELOCAL, if you are specifically targeting trustees in your claim that the AUSD Administration has factions that are “incompetent” and “corrupt,” I couldn’t disagree with you more. Having worked with a number of different school boards in the county, I wouldn’t hesitate to call Atascadero’s the best of the bunch — hands down. And I base my criteria on the fact that 1) they are the most dedicated in doing what’s best for children; and, 2) they are most in tune with what is going on with the schools. They might not be perfect in the second regard, but definitely better than the rest.
By: Longtimelocal on 5/30/09
Unfortunately, what you need to understand it that there are two factions of the AUSD Administration – those that are incompetent and those that are corrupt (sometime they overlap). I suggest you channel your passion to organize, replace the School Board, then replace the Administrators and finally, finally do what is best for the children of this district.
By: Responsible_Teacher on 5/30/09
Every single parent of Santa Margarita School get up and do something!!
Your school has at least 2 startling issues that have come to light this year.
So as you’re laying in bed tonight, close your eyes and think about those 3rd graders who were told by another student of the sexually explicit things he/she wanted to do to them. Do you think those thoughts will ever leave their impressionable minds? Oh, but I forgot, it wasn’t your child – so just go off to sleep!!
1. Contact other parents. Each of you need to write and call your superintendent and school board members – do both, I know it matters! Never assume they know what is going on! God knows your “person-in-charge” didn’t inform them.
2. Make appointments to see them – go in groups, as it is less intimidating and does make more of an impact.
3. Have your issues addressed at board meetings, get them on the agenda. Go to the district and find out how to do this!! The next School Board meetings are June 2, June 30, August 18 and September 1.
4. Some of these issues will be addressed in closed session – but they need to be addressed!!
5. Call TV and radio and ask that they attend these meetings. In the district I work there are specific reporters that attend every school board meeting.
Even if your child isn’t in any of these problem classes, don’t stand idly by, as it’s the parents’ responsibility to ensure that all students are taken care of at Santa Margarita.
Sleep well tonight.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/30/09
Another point to last. Which is easier.
Walking on water or getting rid of a tenured teacher? Exactly. It stinks. It almost takes an act of God to get rid of teachers. Walking on water would be easier.
Want to solve the problem? Ditch the UNIONS!!!
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/30/09
To last posted comment you are WAY off the mark. I am more involved parent then you can ever assume. As to my stance on comment about investigation. They have so far done everything within the letter of the law. Does that mean I like it? NO. I am a defender of law. Sometimes it works for us, a lot of times against us but I am still saying it is the law. If they have gone to investigate the home what else can you do? And don’t tell me to throw the kid out of school. I would love that but here is the reality check the A.C.L.U WON’T let it happen!! Not with what has gone on so for from the FACTS presented. I agree 100% with calling the the board. That said it won’t help for anyone (i.e. ME) not in that school.
I have dealt with the principal in my kids school. They are Johnny one note, that they will only listen to the parties involved.
I for one HATE and have HATED the liberal school system we have had for years that coddles this crap.
So when I go to the polls I vote conservatively against all this libreral clap trap. Then when people get it (A.C.L.U. atel) they whine about their rights. People have been asleep at the wheel giving up their rights.
The really sad point is that everyone hear follows news obviously and agrees this is ridiculas. The problem is everyone out there (and there is alot even in my own family) with their heads in the sand and they don’t want to be bothered.
So again I stand reluctantly by the law till someone can tell me how we can break it without the A.C.L.U getting involved.
This is only in regards to the first two kids as it is said it has been investigated. As for the other and the comments to the girl, I would like to see were they are on that investigation.
The sad reality I have in over 35 years of reading daily news is, justice goes blind every day and yes it sucks.
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By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/30/09
Dear Gray Granny, Your comments are mega cool and totally right on…I enjoy reading your comments. Sometimes, not always, wisdom comes with age and experience. What lucky grandchildren to have such a concerned, perceptive, and level-headed granny. I wish more children had concerned, loving, and level-headed extended family members surrounding them.
Dear Scarlet,
One would think that contacting the superintendent would be a logical choice. Been there, done that. Been given the “Broken Record” technique to get yet another parent off his back. It seems that as long as all his budget cuts are in place and all his pink slips are delivered with a kind “compassionate” smile he doesn’t seem to care. I wonder if the superintendent is aware of what is happening at the school sites or the classrooms? Does he ever visit the schools or does he just do his school PR visits at Open House and Graduation? Hello Board of Education members! Are you out there? The people running AUSD should be put back on a bus to Arizona! Seems to me that the reputation of AUSD has been on a steady decline for quite some time. Ask around, it is interesting (and disheartening) what parents and educators from other school districts say about AUSD. So, as much as I would like to contact the superintendent, I am afraid that doing so would just be another effort in futility. Perhaps the superintendent would be willing to meet with the parents to clear the air before the new principal begins. I just hope he is willing to listen to all of the input. There are MORE than just a few unhappy parents. An aware and concerned Superintendent would have intervened long before this to investigate the apparent lack of leadership on the SMES campus. Perhaps the abusive environment at the school has been perpetuated by the principal. Her days are certainly numbered with the impending retirement coming up, but I wonder if the school will be able to recover their reputation, pride, dignity, and positive environment. What will the superintendent do to ensure that the school is able to recover from this mess? Like I said, I would love to have this discussion with him but past attemps have left me disappointed. I love your comments, Scarlet, posted on 5/28. A culture of trust, respect, and safety is a goal. I am concerned that many of the staff appear to be so down, frustrated, and unhappy. Hopefully, with the impending retirement and a new principal on the way, the staff members will see the” light at the end of the tunnel.”
Dear Provider of the Truth,
Where are you? Have you retired from providing us with your input or are you just too busy completing all of your paperwork at school? I am “staying tuned” ….many of us are waiting for your next excuse. Perhaps you should change your name to “Provider of blame, excuse, and justification?”
By: Scarlet on 5/29/09
Parents: To voice your concerns on the very important issues of accountability and child safety, contact Superintendent John Rogers at 462-4217 or e-mail jrogers@atas.k12.ca.us. It will be up to us to make certain this never happens again.
By: FRACTUREDFAIRIETALES on 5/29/09
Maggie: Sorry, I didn’t catch that he had had counseling. Seems that it has been a pretty pathetic excuse, however. I really don’t know what all can be done, baring removal from the family and extensive treatment in a facility with physicians and medication. Some people are just born socio-paths. However, society as a responsibility to at least TRY to help as best we can. But, as you said, the rest is up to the parents. Unfortunately, sometimes that is what the big problem is.
By: Maggie on 5/29/09
Uh, Fractured… The 4th grader HAS been seeing a school assigned psychologist/counselor for 4 yrs now. The same counselor who hasn’t done a damn bit of good in 4 yrs., as evidenced by the boy’s actions. The boy’s mother and his little brother are also in counseling (with same said counselor) for the same length of time. (1x/wk) This lousy counselor, paid for by courtesy of you and I, is the very one who gave the boy a golden star safety rating. The good doctor wouldn’t want to cast a doubtful shadow upon his counseling abilities, nor would he want to lose his cushy position with the school district, or even a possible loss of income! It all starts at home and these kids have a lousy home life. What can we do?
By: FRACTUREDFAIRIETALES on 5/29/09
I am actually going to agree with Wiseguy regarding the two separate incidents going on. These are merely children, being influenced by negative, angry, hostile images. They apparently are not given the opportunity to learn non-aggressive, non-threatening problem solving. We see horrible images on TV, Movies, etc. Adults have a hard enough time compartmentalizing and dealing with violent and obscene materials (just look at the prison system), but to expect a child to be able to understand the consequences of certain actions or words without a proper guidance is purely ignorance. Unfortunately, the child with the “Megan’s Law” mother more than likely has had quite a lesson in poor choices, considering hers are warped. THAT child needs absolute therapy, as do those supposed adults who are very instrumental in his life. The other child, would benefit from some counseling and the ability to solve problems without being a bully himself. I’m sure this is not the first case and definitely will not be the last – but we need to be vigilant without stomping on parental rights also. It can be a very slippery slope, but to do nothing is to be as much at fault.
By: margaritamom on 5/29/09
WOW, could some of you please send your comments to John Rogers himself. Blogging about it isn’t doing a whole lot of good. But making these remarks to John Rogers himself might (jrogers@atas.k12.ca.us)
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/29/09
Dear M.A.D.D.,
You are spot on. I agree with you whole heartedly! Your comments are brilliant!
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By: InTheKnow2 on 5/29/09
Couldn’t be said better SomeoneWhoKnows! I agree with your sneaky suspicion! Many of these people assume they know all of the facts, but really all they are hearing is one side of it. I applaud these parents for standing behind what they believe and for protecting their children. Maybe it wouldn’t have come to this if administration did what they were supposed to do!! I think most parents already know that MK cannot be depended on! What would she have done if these parents didn’t take action and someone did get hurt? Good thing we haven’t had to find out….but really is that only because these parents have kept their children out of school?
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/29/09
Dear Provider Of The Truth,
I have been waiting all day to hear about what you found out when you went to the courthouse. I have a sneaky suspicion that you came up with a great big zero. Funny how that works, some people are ethical and credible and others are not. What category do you fit into? Sometimes those who are sick of the “garbage” shouldn’t throw so much trash around!
By: WiseGuy on 5/29/09
Some of you folks watch too much cops and robbers TV. It was NOT a “hit list.” Doesn’t matter if some teacher called it that. Sloppy use of language suggests sloppy thinking.
The lynch mob mentality runs rampant. Do some of you people think you are actually helping matters by all your wild, angry comments, jumping to conclusions and casting blame?
By: yelapop on 5/28/09
The parents of the children who were assaulted/threatened should consider lawerying up. Apparently some laws may have been broken & rights violated. Of course, the last thing our ailing schools need is a judgment, but I can assure you this would not happen again. Something to consider when the district is unresponsive.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/28/09
Dear Responsible Teacher,
BINGO! You have got the right idea. Are you interested in moving to the beautiful Central Coast of California. You could be a teacher at the school or the new principal or run for the school board! In fact, your response is so “right on” that you could be the new superintendent! I find it interesting how some responses on this site “hit the nail on the head” even when the response is from someone who is not from this area. Other responses are just more efforts to CYA or justify an already bad situation. Personally, I would like to see more compassion from the administration at all levels. It would be nice if someone would accept responsibility for the situation and the way it was handled. Does anyone know how to say, “I am so sorry that this has happened, there is no excuse for this, and here is what I have done to insure that this will not happen again in the future.” Forcing the principal into early retirement is a step in the right direction. Maybe the new principal will spend more time communicating with the parents, students and staff.
By: Responsible_Teacher on 5/28/09
I work for a school in CA and I can’t believe what I’m reading. Our principal deals with situations immediately – calls are made (home, work and cell) until parents are reached.
Supt. Rogers’ quote is “Our first and foremost goal is the safety of our students.” I ask you Supt. Rogers, “How can our students feel safe when you acknowledged that the principal did everything according to code when she received the note on Friday morning and did not contact any parents until Monday night? And then the student stayed in school yet another day after that!”
Three days he was allowed in class until he was suspended! Amazing! Do you think this makes our students feel safe Superintendent Rogers? In Principal Karp’s own words she said she acted quickly & appropriately and according to school policy. I ask you Supt. Rogers, teachers and parents, “Do you think keeping a student in school for 3 days prior to his suspension is acting according to school policy?” Parents in our school district would have flooded the superintendent’s office demanding answers. Oh, but I forgot, the principal will be gone in 3 weeks anyway!
I just don’t get how parents can look the other way. Why don’t you make the Superintendent and School Board accountable?
I ask you Supt. Rogers, since this boy has had psychological counseling for 4 years and the problem is not going away, what is your next plan? Your efforts are not producing results and this situation will only get worse as this child will get older, stronger and more violent. He is crying out for help and you need to act NOW to get him help.
There doesn’t seem to be any accountability here and it needs to fall directly on the shoulders of the Superintendent, the school board and the principal. None of these people appear to have a clue.
To sum it up:
1. Action was not taken immediately to diffuse this situation. Clearly violation of your own policy.
2. Parents of affected children were not notified immediately. Again a violation of your policy.
3. Actions taken thus far, or the lack thereof, have not shown leadership or even common sense. It seems the School officials feel that if they just put things back the way they were, everything will be fine. Do you seriously believe that?!
4. The problem is clearly lack of competent individuals at all levels in the Santa Margarita school system. Why didn’t the teacher who found the note on Thursday call the principal immediately so she could contact the parents Thursday night instead of Monday night?
5. If parents want to ensure their children get a good education in a safe environment, they are going to have to address these issues and correct them. Get off your behinds parents!
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By: Clemintine on 5/28/09
Wiseguy has gas about the reporter using the term “hit list,” yet on of the bloggers indicates that the Principal herself reffered to it as a “hit list.” If this is the true then it would seem very appropriate to use the language.
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it must be a duck right Wiseguy?
You seem awfully critical of the reporter whose doing a pretty good job with this site. Are you one of the disgruntled reporters who keep getting scooped? If so just get out there and start digging.
For those of you who see the great importance of breaking news of public interest and welfare please join me in donating to keep things running.
Good job Cal Coast News.com
By: WiseGuy on 5/28/09
It seems from some of the comments here that some people posting aren’t taking into account that this story deals with TWO problem children, each with different circumstances, different actions, different backgrounds, etc.
Again, I wish to stress that, based on the facts here, using the term “hit list” or “kill list” does not seem to be fair or accurate and serves only sensationalism and inflaming the emotions of readers. I will consider it sloppy and irresponsible, possibly harmful, reporting until any facts suggest otherwise.
Just look at the nature of so many comments here. Look at the wild emotions and accusations. Basic lynch mob mentality.
People need to calm down and get into a reasonable mood and look toward healing the situation. These are children we are talking about, children who grow up in a society where the most awful violent images and anger is practically spoon fed to them through TV, movies, video games. And the adults feed on this too. We are living in a highly dysfunctional, highly violent, terribly angry society. These incidents are a wake up call, not to beat up on people, but to realize how much violence and anger we tolerate and perpetuate ourselves. Simply look at the tone of so many of these comments!
By: Black_Copter_Pilot on 5/28/09
This whole event creates a strong arguement for the vocher system. The private schools don’t have to put up with this behavior, but the puplic schools are riddled with these types of problems.
Either the parents don’rt care or the teachers don’t. Either way, it’s been a losing proposition, the public school system.
By: GrayGranny on 5/28/09
I am terribly concerned about the nonchalant opinions being expressed here regarding the two incidents at Santa Margarita Elementary School (as being mere infractions). I wonder if one of the “posting members” had a child who had been threatened by one of these boys, if his or her stance would be so cavalier.
I am questioning why SMES does not have policies and procedures in place to handle such situations as the sexual and violent threats that were recently made against other SMES students? And if there are protocols in place, what happened, why weren’t they followed? Will Ms. Karp be held accountable for not following established protocols? Families of children who attend SMES should have big concerns if established policies and procedures, such as mandated reporting, were not followed—administrators and teachers must be held responsible.
I know for a fact Ms. Karp enforces truancy policies to the extreme. If only she had been as diligent as a mandated reporter, this very concerning situation could have been handled in an expedient, professional manner.
As mandated reporters, I have to question why the SMES teachers who knew of these two incidents didn’t report them to the appropriate authorities (such as CPS and law enforcement). And as far as Ms. Karp’s DUI, that is between her and the judicial system. All I want her to do is keep our SMES children safe or step aside and let someone take over who has the qualifications to do so.
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By: Maggie on 5/28/09
What I would like to know is why people would say the boy was bullied when there has been no proof. Arriving at personal conclusions based on the uninformed comments here lead me to believe only a handful of people truly know what is going on at SMES. Going by what another blogger said happened is a witch hunt, and it doesn’t matter which side of the issue you stand.
The boy in question, whom I personally know, has SERIOUS mental issues. He’s been in counseling once a week (which btw has been paid for by us taxpayers) for 4 yrs! I have him included in play dates on several occasions. HE is a bully with no parental boudaries! Why the public would take this opportunity to pounce on the victims, the children of the list, and name them as the instigators is beyond me.
I personally know the other kids and while one girl is a known school trouble-maker herself (fighting & suspensions), the other two kids are in the top of their class coming from a very responsible two-parent homes. Knowing this boy, having spent many hours with him, I feel very strongly that this boy should have never been let back in school! I don’t dislike the kid, in fact quite the opposite. But he’s mentally unstable.
Perhaps the reasons are more financial than anything else. The school receives $$ for every child in daily attendance. They also get $500/child/year if the child is on Ritalin. More if they’re on Prozac too. The boy happens to be on both plus! You do the math and it comes down to money. The school would be sad to lose a few students like the ones threatened, but what this one boy brings in for the school alone can make up the monetary absence 2 others.
By: WiseGuy on 5/28/09
Hold on there Ms. Velie! Are you sure you are not being inaccurate (not to mention highly sensational) when you use the terms “hit list” and “kill list”? Both terms suggest there is an intent to murder. Neither of these are necessarily fair or correct terms to use for someone who creates a list of names of people they would prefer to be “dead.”
Many of us might wish that someone was no longer alive, but that in no way means that we have any intent to cause that person’s death.
This boy may have simply been expressing his feelings (perhaps after being tormented), and not any intent to inflict violence.
Do you know otherwise? If not, then those terms are absolutely unfair, inaccurate and inflammatory. It is exactly that kind of continual loose use of the English language that discredits your reporting and this site. And it causes harm to others who are unfairly painted in your stories.
Do you have any idea what kind of damage you may be doing, all for the sake of your selfish journalistic interests?
By: concerned_citizen on 5/28/09
I am shocked at the school boards decision and at the number of people who just want to keep their heads in the sand on this issue. Putting these two kids back in the classroom was a monumental mistake. Mostly for the two of them now, but sadly for many others who will be harmed in the future. These kids need help and that’s what must be provided. Dropping them back in the classroom is just letting the problem fester until it explodes. You are going to be hearing about them again – maybe soon, but maybe not for years to come. Someday you’ll see some terrible disaster in the news and say “gee, that name sounds familiar”. Wouldn’t you really rather take some corrective action now so you won’t have to bear the burden of responsibility for what will occur in the future? You people haven’t even put a bandaid on this problem, much less attempted to identify a cure. Some of you (and that definitely includes you school board members) are shirking your social responsibility and spending way too much time trying to coddle a principal who has been totally incompentent in her handling of this matter. Her inability to deal with this situation alone is grounds for immediate termination. Get off your butts people – your problems will not go away by ignoring them. Your “they’re just kids” attitude is disgusting. You’ve got to fix this NOW.
By: FRACTUREDFAIRIETALES on 5/28/09
to Maggie: I don’t have absolute proof that bullying was involved directly. Sometimes kids will feel left out, snubbed, not included. This is also a form of bullying although this is often a childs way of avoiding confrontation. Is it better to be snubbed than belittled in front of friends? Depends on the child. My opinion only.
By: Maggie on 5/28/09
Fracturedfairietales: I’m still trying to pinpoint the source that reported this as being the outcome of bullying. Do you know where I can find that?
By: FRACTUREDFAIRIETALES on 5/28/09
I am so happy to see that people, whether agreeing with the article, or not are at least talking. Things such as child abuse and inability to cope with bullying are left hidden in the dark corners until we, as adults and parents, can help shine some light on said corners. Children are incapable of making proper choices and need to be guided. That said, those in authority (school officials, parents, grparents, etc.)need to be kept abreast of what their child, student, grandchild is dealing with. I would rather be aware of the problem with my child and deal with it with the proper help, than learn later (possibly after a tragedy) that there were concerns never addressed. That is nothing but heartbreaking for everyone. Mrs. Karp failed to address this in a timely manner, and for that, trust and faith in her ability has been compromised. That is unfortunate, but was well within her ability to control. Hopefully, next year will be a more open and productive year.
By: Maggie on 5/28/09
Cindy: Provider Of The Truth is about half way down this blog.
By: Maggie on 5/28/09
Is there any proof the kids named on the list are bullies? I think whoever started that rumor jumped the gun. Sometimes being smarter, pretty, and even jealous of a person can set someone off, like the kid in question.
By: Scarlet on 5/28/09
Well done, MADD. I’m a very concerned parent involved in this mess and I have no knowledge of DB or RG meeting with Karen. After weeks of trying to work through the system, many of us became increasingly frustrated. This was not something to hush up. That’s been going on for way too long at SMES. A new principal couldn’t arrive a moment too soon. Get help for the kids involved, create transparency so parents can stay informed, and rebuild a culture of trust, respect and safety at the school.
I would say petty mudslinging should be reserved for the schoolyard but that’s not true either. Time to grow up ProviderOfTheTruth.
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By: M.A.D.D. on 5/28/09
To Provider of the truth, KA, yes, I’m speaking to you. How sadly mistaken you also are with the facts. What you say is BS, and those are not anyone’s initials. Both of these issues were not handled in the appropriate time manner. The principal did not make the call to the parent with the child on the hit list until Monday evening at 9:00 P.M. The principal, MK, knew on the previous Friday before school started about this issue. Why such a long wait? Why weren’t the parents called that morning or even that day? You think this has to do with Band or MK’s DUI? Yes, as you see I am also a mother against drunk drivers, Sorry MK. Wrong again. You want to name DB and RG for MK’s problems and issues. I DO KNOW for a fact that DB was not involved in this going to press. You can think as you like but you know nothing. DB is a parent who is protecting her child. As I would expect any normal parent to do in this case. Let your child get a little bit older and let’s see how you might feel. If we are so called casting bottles, let’s make them wine bottles, Mk’s choice, not beer bottles. MK’s drinking issue is not the one at hand. Call it a smear campaign. I call it a lack of many issues not dealt with properly by the principal. You have a lot of nerve getting on here and pointing the finger at two innocent people. I say Kudos to DB for being an awesome parent and doing her job as a parent, and doing it well. As for trying to bring RG into this, shame on you. I applaud RG for getting his child out of SMES before having to put up with this unprofessional take on these issues. You go right on down to that courthouse and look all you want. You’ll be looking a long time. Nobody is worried, only the principal.MK SHOULD just take this lying down as she is the only one who made her bed.
STAY TUNED!!!!!
By: Maggie on 5/28/09
Margaritamom, I’d like to know who you really are. Is your kid on the “dead” list? Has your kid ever been bullied by anyone on that list? Just provide me with your initials and I can figure out who you are, if you don’t want your name in print. You see, my child is in that classroom too.
By: InTheKnow on 5/28/09
The date and ages in the Trib are wrong. This happened in May and the fourth grader is not 9 years old. The fourth grader has many emotional and learning problems and is a bully himself.
Both these children should have been protected. There have been problems on the playground with both children all year including injuries of other children that required medical care.
However, instead of allowing parent volunteers to help supervise Karp has chosen to keep inadequate staff on the yard.
The third grader deserves the help he needs. If it comes out that he has been living for years in an abusive home environment, and Karps lack of following law has been a key factor in his situation continuing, I hope she has to answer for a failure to follow laws enacted to protect all children.
There have been complaints regarding these children since the beginning of the school year. It is not OK to have children threatening rape to kids in first, second, and third grade. How can you call this normal childhook behavior.
Also, Karp always blames others. After her DUI she blamed her size and parents she alleged were out to get her. She never accepted any responsibility for her drunk driving. Now she is again blaming parents.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/28/09
No problem Yelopop. Thanks.
Cindy I read the same thing, page two might I add, and it said the child was deemed not a threat. O.k. I can jive with that. Now how about the other child making the the sexual threats? Anyone heard how that played out?
That all said it still went down the way it should. It was investigated and no weapons found to be accessible to this child but again this would not have been found out (no weapons) if not brought to the attention of the authorities.
By: Cindy on 5/28/09
It turns out that the age of this child who wrote a list of people who he wished were dead is 9 years old, he is also very small for his age. I just read a less sensational and realistic report about it on the front page of the Tribune. Thank God for sanity.
By: yelapop on 5/28/09
Sorry BeenThere. Here’s the fix:
ProviderOfTheTruth and GetReel. Or shall we say CA, MK, DC, etc.? Good for you. You eat your own. If I were Melanie, I would also have my friends/employees posting to deflect any criticism I should rightfully own. Smacks of “Oh, I’m only 90 pounds and had one drink before I mowed down those mailboxes and got that DUI.”
THIS IS ABOUT THE CHILDREN. If you think for one second that this is in any way related to the cut of a music program, you are insane. Well, then again, anyone who claims to have made threats as a child similar to those made by the two boys and says it’s just normal kid talk IS actually insane. God I truly hope you don’t work at the school.
Melanie is looking at a substantial fine and actual jail time. Not because parents contacted a local – and very respected – investigative journalist. But because she broke the law. Three times this year alone. How many more children need to be subjected to this, what, neglect? incompetence? unconcern? before something is done about it. My community and its children deserve better.
And by the way, CCN always references past stories when possible. That DUI close was necessary to show a pattern of bad judgment on the principal’s part. The site would have done its readers a disservice to omit it.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/28/09
Sorry typo on that last was or, not are.
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By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/28/09
Yelopop. Back off the bong pipe dude or dudet and go back and read posts. I have said the same.
It is about the kids. Relax. BTW, I and my children are in NO WAY associate or have been associated with this school are anyone in it. I am just posting as a parent who follows news.
By: Cindy on 5/28/09
When is the last time a 4th grader hung a classmate on a playground? This has turned into hysteria. The Columbine incident was about “trench coat” teenagers with guns who shot everyone they could. This is a 3rd grader with a list of 3 people who were hurting him. Two bullies and a little girl (he liked) that wouldn’t speak to him. No doubt he thought it was because the other 2 boys were embarrassing him in front of her. The fact that he drew a picture of someone hanging is about as unrealistic a means of actually carrying out a threat as it could get. So what did the police look for when they searched his home, a hang mans noose? Doesn’t sound like he was a big threat to me and I think this child has now been stigmatized for a long time because of this sensationalism. It doesn’t matter if you print his name or not, everyone is going to know who he is. How will he continue on in a local school system or make future friends in this venue now that this has gone public? I would be very surprised to hear that psychologist believe this is a true threat. I suspect the only child who is in danger is the child who wrote it and I’m sure his parents were informed immediately of his hate list and it’s contents. This should have been kept private and the parents allowed to seek private counseling without all this hype. It’s cruel.
The child who made the explicit sexual threats is at risk and a report should have been made to CPS particularly considering his background. Sounds like the ball was dropped where this child’s welfare is concerned.
By: Paso_Guy on 5/28/09
to clem and beenthere
the lead-in was about beastiality and that was my point. the dope and cell phone angles were merely mentioned after getting your attention with the sex with dog info
By: starvingmexican on 5/28/09
So what’s the problem?We’re being fed the bull that “Queer is Dear” on a daily basis.Maybe, you rednecks aren’t sensitive enough.Take an aspirin and go back to the shrink.I have HOPE and know that we will see Change.
By: SomeoneWhoKnows on 5/28/09
Dear Provider Of The Truth,
YOU HAVEN’T GOT A CLUE!
Dear yelapop,
You are very perceptive and bright!
By: getreel on 5/28/09
In addition Been There, considering the truth of the matter, I would sleep just fine knowing that teachers were looking out for my kids. Yes, we must protect our little ones, but what happened here had little to do with that, and much more to do with expose journalism at it’s worst.
I respected CCN, but now I’m not so sure…
By: getreel on 5/28/09
Mark Twain had it right.
WOW…KSBY hope you are happy now…
This could have been handled SOOOOO much differently. Margarita mom, you are spot on. These kids need help. Suspension- appropriate.
Calling a web based news source and complaining. NOT APPROPRIATE AND FEAR MONGERING!
I won’t debase myself and can actually find real words to use without asterisks. The pompousness comes form those who promote hysteria.
The next thing we will see is Hodin from New Times doing a cartoon showing a bunch of perverts lurking in the bushes at SMS.
And what purpose does it serve to mention Karps DUI at the end of the article. Can you say “sensationalism”.
By: margaritamom on 5/27/09
FYI..you want some facts?
1. Death threat was received by principal four days before she called the sheriff or psychologist. Principal broke the law by not acting immediately.
2. Three kids were on this “list”, identified by the principal herself as a “hitlist”. Two of the children have been known to bully, however, the third child has never even made a face at this child or any other for that matter. Not all three were bullies!
3. A picture of a child hanging from noose was also drawn on this page.
4. Other pages in this booklet are the child saying terrible things about himself. He may be a risk to himself as well as others.
I am a very concerned parent who thinks this child needs serious help outside of the school grounds for the rest of the year.
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By: ProviderOfTheTruth on 5/27/09
As Mark Twain said “If you don’t read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed”. Well ladies and gentlemen – you are misinformed.
The issues with these children have been going on for a while now and the school district has been dealing with it according to the letter of the law. This has nothing to do with the safety of the students. What this is really about is a parent that has a hard-on for the principal because a program at the school was cutback due to budget constraints. This parent has launched a personal campaign to smear the principal.
Why do I think that? Well, a few months ago this same parent stood outside of the school handing out letters about the principals DUI incident. She without drink cast the first beer bottle. To those of you that read the above article, didn’t the last line/paragraph seem a little wierd? Did to me. Where did that come from??? Guess what? It came from that same parent. It appears that she is good friends and next door neighbor with a certain KSBY newscaster who was once a kindergarten teacher at this school. He didn’t seem to like the principal either. Together they have above average access to the local media – did you see KSBY’s coverage today?
This whole thing is over 2 weeks old and now just getting out to the media. Stop and think again about that last paragraph – what does that have do do with hit lists and pre-adolescent “nasty” talk? Remember elementary school? Remember saying “nasty things”? Of course you do!
If my kid were at that school I wouldn’t be overly concerned. In my opinion this is all about DB and RG’s personal vendetta against the principal and today’s over the top political correctness has given them an easy way to cause the principal heartache.
Personally, I’m going to the courthouse tomorrow and looking at the court records of DB and RG for some Geraldo dirt on them. I’m sick of this garbage!!!
Stay tuned.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/27/09
In the post Columbine world, if my kid was on that list I would be concerned also. Would the kid who wrote the list do anything? We won’t know till it happens. People try best they can, being people, to look for possible triggers.
A child to take the time to make a list of people he wants dead is taking an extra step. I like many people have been bullied in past at school and may have not liked a kid and to see something bad befall them but never took the time to write it out. Never had that much contempt.
Let’s hope that your child reel would never have to wind up on some kids list and you have to lay in bed at night and wonder if this is serious or not. Walk a mile in these parents shoes before you act like such a pompous a**.
There is no joke here. Nothing funny. Not even funny to laugh at you.
By: InTheKnow on 5/27/09
To Getreel,
I heard no back pedaling on Congalton. Teachers and child advocates called in to say how important mandated reporting is. The Trib artical is an attempt to catch up. However, they failed to mention the most important aspect of this issue. Is the third grade bully being protected from what appears to be an abusive home environment? The story only mentioned the fourth grader and the suspension for the list. I’ve heard the police have been to the school repeatedly and also both students homes have been searched. Does that mean the police are over reacting?
By: getreel on 5/27/09
This is one big joke.
THIS WAS NO “KILL LIST”!
A Kid writes a note about the kids who had been bullying him that says ‘people I wish were dead”.
Maybe we should call the FBI.
Karen, you backpedaled on Congalton like crazy. Everything was “well, that’s what I heard…”
Maybe we should isolate these kids, better yet let’s just brand them now. School should have done a better job on some of this, but the parents who went to CCN are ridiculous!
Yes, I guess I am “one of those people” that you classify as stupid. So be it. I am not the one on a lame ass witch hunt.
The Trib was much more careful and precise, and has much more intelligent bloggers on this one.
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By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/27/09
To Granny well put. I like you have no reason to think that parents would have an axe to grind and would make this up. I like you can’t believe a few of the fools on here that see this as no big deal. No wonder the world is getting so messed up. Let’s all just look the other way. Pathitic.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/27/09
Hey Paso Guy buy a clue pal. It wasn’t just beastility. It was also child abuse on tape. I guess for guys like you that are holyier than tho, that, that is no big deal?? Jeez.
By: GrayGranny on 5/27/09
Some of the cynical responses below are shocking to me. Does the 1999 Columbine High School massacre ring any bells out there? Then there was the 2005 Red Lake Senior High School shooting where seven students were killed..there are too many school shootings to write about here.
One of the young targeted victims (and family) are friends of ours and this is not a fabricated story…it is not make believe, it is not funny, it is scary and real. How would everyone be reacting if the threat had turned into action…oh why didn’t anyone see this coming??? I would like to see the parents of Santa Margarita Elementary School students come together and voice their disdain for the SMES principal and the Atascadero Unified School District Board for not providing a safe environment for all children.
Every day we hear about children being sexually molested and the majority of the time, killed. If a third grader has enough knowledge to make sexually violent threats, he has enough knowledge to follow through with the threats. I’m outraged by SMES acceptance of this intolerable behavior.
And let’s not forget SMES now has a Megan’s Law sex offender “hanging out” on the school campus, with or without an escort. As a friend once told me, having a child sex offender around children is like dropping a recovery meth addict off at a meth house.
A “hit list” produced by a fourth grader and a third grader making sexually violent threats…this is not normal third and fourth grade behavior. If you want to downplay this and only call it bullying, that too isn’t okay. Have you ever been bullied? If not, you will never understand the life-long damaging effect this has on an individual.
Threats of violence and sexual assault should not be tolerated anytime, anywhere. Everyone in our community needs to stand up and loudly voice their disapproval of how these two incidents have been handled and downplayed. Maybe it is time for our Governor or Attorney General to get involved in this situation. It seems to me the civil rights of many students have been violated.
By: Clemintine on 5/27/09
Paso guy sarcastacly writes that the beastiality story was cutting edge ….
Don’t you remember that the most significant part of the story was that the suspect was smuggeling narcotics and cell phones into the CMC prison. Isn’t that important enough for you or maybe you just didn’t bother to read the whole story?
North County folks ….geeze!
By: margaritaparent on 5/27/09
getreel…if your child was on this “kill List” would you take it more seriously? It is NOT normal to have a graphic list of people in your class that you want to kill. My son wasn’t on the list but will NOT return to school with this child. I take the life of my child as well as the life of others seriously and am NOT willing to play a game of russian ruelette with them. This is a matter that CAN NOT be swept under the rug just because this is out of character for this child, or becasue the school year is almost over so lets just ride it out. How can you take this lightly….”preposterous”
By: soca on 5/27/09
Cindy – I didn’t catch your mea culpa before I posted my flame. My apologies.
I do, however, want to explore your original comment and would be interested to know your world view. Remember, you read the article, are a thinking adult who has access to the internet and is willing, albeit, as I am, to do so anonymously, and express an opinion on the article.
What motivated you to skip over mitigating facts and move you to opine? You are clearly a person who has the integrity to reason. I am interested in knowing what the motivation was and its construct.
By: Paso_Guy on 5/27/09
that beastiality story is real edge cutting news….the whole county was holding it’s collective breath when that broke!
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By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/27/09
Yelapop, well said. I was thinking about how everyone gets on CAL. Coast News about their coverage. Of course lets see, they broke things on Hurst Financial before the Trib. and it was called hogwash at first. Same with the Edge story.
I see this morning that the story they reported on about the guy getting arrest for Bestiality in Atas. back on April 15th finally made it’s way to the Trib. this morning. Four+ weeks later.
So I guess that people like Getreal are right. This site and the people on it must have an axe to grind and all this stuff is just made up. Lets ignor this story and wait till the kids do something horrific first. Yea right.
By: yelapop on 5/27/09
No, getreel. Preposterous is school officials doing nothing while knowing this is going on in the classrooms. Preposterous is blaming the media for reporting on a principal’s misdeeds and bad judgment. Typical blame-the-messenger mentality. I’m proud of these parents for finally taking a stand and saying “enough!” If school officials had handled these kids properly and said “enough” long ago, maybe their whole Zero Tolerance/ No Bully Zone crap wouldn’t be such a joke.
By: getreel on 5/27/09
SO…parents call CCN, they print, without all the facts, momentum gains (Due to the sensationalistic content)Fox News picks it up (again content) and viola, we have national news. This is not how media should work. You can pretty much call Karen and say what you want and have a shot at the big time! I can now expect people to call me and ask if my kids are OK going to SM School…
This is great. After many great years at SM school we can than the media for lighting one up on us. Please Karen, share the wealth and look for more sensational topics in other communities as well. I’m sure there are some parents out there who have axes to grind and have a story to tell.
Preposterous…
By: HonestyPlanet on 5/27/09
If Megan’s law serves to protect our children from sexual predators, what kind of idiocy doesn’t extend that protection to the offender’s children??? Are they simply to be doomed by gentics??? (Sorry, we’re going to protect everyone but you from your own sick parent?)
By: karen on 5/27/09
This issue will be discussed on the Dave Congalton Show on Wednesday May 27, at 4 p.m. Tune into 920AM or listen live at 920kvec.com.
By: mccdave on 5/27/09
Santa Margarita isn’t far from Atascadero, so where’s Booty_Juice? If he’s been banned, half my reason for reading this site is gone.
By: InTheKnow on 5/26/09
Now that “Fox News” has determined this is a national news story, do you think the rest of the local media will think this is a newsworthy story and report on it?
By: alittlebirdtoldme on 5/26/09
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522040,00.html
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/26/09
Sad part is, is that your molestors, rapists, killers etc. didn’t become that all of a sudden as adults. It is started early on, in these formative years and to make matters worse, is to find the normal childhood stuff, (I will kill you if you take that) from the abnormal stuff (let me write down how I will kill you).
The home life here says we are already leaning to abnormal. This could be societies problem person of tomorrow. Time will tell.
By: FRACTUREDFAIRIETALES on 5/26/09
All it takes is one more taunt, one more push on the playground, one more mean word and someone finally pulls a Columbine. Many families have guns in the home, whether for hunting, etc. It is not that hard to find one, pack it in a backpack and produce it at school. Don’t think that it hasn’t happened, it won’t happen or can’t. If you believe that, you perpetuate the belief that because we are a small community, we are safe. Mental illness strikes everywhere. Some people become stronger when pushed, others break. Help these children (and obviously the parents) NOW to learn coping skills, before it becomes a tragedy.
By: Cindy on 5/26/09
Soca- Lighten up, you ask “how can you equate an adult woman who has been convicted of having sex with a child under the age of 14 with a 20 year old having sex with a mature 17 year old?”
I didn’t equate it. I didn’t pick up on the fact that Megan’s Law is different from other sex offenders. I thought they all get lumped together and that we don’t really know who did what since it’s all under Megan’s Law. Initially I was responding with ignorance. Next time I’ll read more closely.
You state: “Finally – You seem fine about calling this hit list a hate list.”
I “thought” we were dealing with an 8 year old, who in turn was dealing with other 8 year olds. When I was in third grade I was 8 years old the entire school year. I don’t believe 8 year olds make hit lists, plan them out and then kill. Now I find that this child is older than 8 (2-3 years is a big difference at that age) and this child has been “bullied mercilessly”. Different scenario.
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By: soca on 5/26/09
Cindy – First – how can you equate an adult woman who has been convicted of having sex with a child under the age of 14 with a 20 year old having sex with a mature 17 year old? Would you have the same point of view if this was a man with the same convication I wonder?
Second – How does an 8-9 Y.O kid know about sticking objects into another’s vagina or anus? Hmmm? Books, TV, Movies? Maybe just a very sick homelife under the guardianship of a convicted child molester.
If you are wondering why a social services agency would allow this mother to raise her children if they were concerned about her, then you know little about the way child welfare services works, their level of supervision and the paradigm under which they operate, which is to to follow the SS “Golden Rule” – Keep Family Units Together At ALL Costs.
Finally – You seem fine about calling this hit list a hate list. But I suspect you would be an anonymous poster (albeit under a new pseudonym) who would be castigating the school district for not taking action after a killing spree, when they did have direct prior evidence of a threat – nee Columbine. While kids typically can be quite cruel to each other, it is a rare one who will take it beyond playground taunting and put it down in writing. Methinks that this one is a ringer and will be a part of the criminal justice system in the future.
By: Cindy on 5/26/09
Yes OK Yelapop,
I deleted my post, your not the only person who let me know how wrong I had it.
I didn’t know that a Megan’s Law conviction is reported on a separate list from other sex offender types. It’s beyond my comprehension that CPS would leave a child with a parent who is convicted of LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS. When I think of a woman and mother with that sort of a conviction it floors me.
What’s really scary is that we know that this is a disease/defect (whatever you want to call it)that can’t be treated so why leave a child in that kind of danger? Up surd.
P.S. I didn’t say that Karp had “one drink” I said one drink “too many”. I’ve since been told that she does that frequently so I’ll just drop it.I hope these children get the help they need and deserve. Hopefully its not too late to save them.
By: JorgeEstrada on 5/26/09
Our children are like a small tree. If they get topped or harshly treated their growth is stunted and if they get injured they may die.
Protect our young forest.
By: yelapop on 5/26/09
Cindy, why the hell does the age being 8 or 10 years matter? Children were threatened and the parents want the principal to DO SOMETHING. And we do know the facts about the mother. Check Megan’s Law” 288(a) LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS ACTS WITH CHILD UNDER 14 YEARS. So there goes your college coed theory. And about Melanie Karp having one drink and getting popped at 1 1/2times the legal limit – you really know how to stretch it. How about a little compassion for the children involved and less apologizing for an apathetic administration.
By: InTheKnow on 5/26/09
To Cindy, from what I’ve heard they are 10-12 year olds, they are not 8 year olds. the psychologist did not interview the boy until he was OUT of school, before that it was not reported. The word is that the kill list was a credible threat, not a transient threat. If this child had gone ahead with his threat, where would we be now?
But I think what is missing here is that these children are seriously in need of help.
One boy is being raised by a child molestor and is displaying behaviour that makes you think he may be being molested, the other child is writing a kill list of ones that bully him and seems in dire need of some counseling and perhaps rescuing.
By: Clemintine on 5/26/09
Something that some of you might have missed here is the child’s relationship with the parent, who is registered as a sex offender.
In view of the child’s behavior I hope that law enforcement and child protection services conduct a preliminary invetigation to determine if the child’s current behavior is driven by the parent as well as the child’s suitability to remain with the parent.
Hopefully this child can be steered down a more appropriate path.
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By: Cindy on 5/26/09
If I’m not mistaking the principal said that she had these notes and “hit list” reviewed by 4 separate psychologists and it sounds like they made an assessment that didn’t require dismissing these children. We are talking about 8 year olds. Get a grip, it doesn’t mean anything to the child saying it. Do you remember when you were 8 years old? Did you ever say you wanted to kill someone? “I’ll shoot you (was very popular)”. Remember things like “If you break that I’ll kill you”? Siblings tell each other their going to kill each other frequently (and they are often a lot older than 8)
Granted I don’t recall ever seeing it put in writing which indicates that a bit more thought was put into the words. These are still little 8 year olds. They don’t mean it. The supposed “hit list” is laughable. Its a list of kids the child doesn’t like today but will like again tomorrow. I can’t believe the police actually searched this 8 year olds place of residence. For what, his gun? No wonder children act so crazy these days. The adults act crazy.
The child who made the explicit sexual threats IMO is a different story. He does sound like he’s been abused or possibly simply not supervised as to what he watches on TV or reads we don’t know however I think we would all agree that this child needs intervention and help until this gets figured out. This sounds like a child to be worried for/about.
By: hotdog on 5/26/09
Jeez, I’m not a parent but its hard to imagine some parents being so out of touch with what their kids are thinking and doing. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young admonished us to “teach our children well” about 35 years ago. I’ve wondered about that ever since-it’s very fashionable to dress like an idiot (emulating gang attire), much of the music is full of hate and violence, guns in schools-and all this at ever lower ages. Now here, in cute little Santa Margarita, we have 8 year olds doing this stuff! And the staff is slow to act. Amazing.
I somehow feel if I were principal I would call in the parents AND the cops immediately, and crush this sort of miserable behavior. Our kids should be learning and playing, not having to deal with this stress. Only by love, instant feedback and reasonable consequences will our children learn how to deal with life’s issues. By displaying confused and dysfunctional behavior themselves, the ‘adults’ often set a very poor example for our young. Bad scene…
By: anotherconcernedmom on 5/26/09
My child goes to this school and last year we went through a similar experience, a note was past from the student to my child’s best friend that read, she/he wanted to kill the two of them. I first talked to the teacher who did nothing and wouldn’t, so I went to the principal who said she would talk to the child. My husband and I talked and then I called her back and told her if she didn’t call the sheriff we would,(3rd graders do know right from wrong) We were very disappointed that it wasn’t handled like any bigger deal then chewing gum. We did put our foot down before the school finally did their thing and we also kept our kid out of school until it got handled and the sheriff came, but of course the student never did miss any school because of this. These things are a huge deal and at this age we need the school to make a bigger
deal of things like this and make a positive impact on some troubled kids and or their families. They could be saving a life in a couple of years if they just REACT, does our principal remember the word explosion? Would she handle it the same way if a child wrote that they wanted to KILL her or something else? I’m sad to hear that the same problems are happening this year with these things, because there are a lot of positive at this school too and a lot of great parents. My heart goes out to these parents, it’s a scary thing to not feel that your child is safe at school in little Santa Margarita.
By: Altair on 5/25/09
http://www.oncefallen.com/CriminalizingTeenSex.html
Children as young as pre-school students have faced severe penalties for “inappropriate sexual behaviors.” The Virginia Department of Education reported in 2007, 255 elementary students were suspended for offensive sexual touching; the Maryland Department of Education reported 166 elementary students were suspended for sexual harassment. These suspensions add a permanent mark on the child’s school records. In our quest to prevent sexual violence, we are willing to place marks of infamy on children as young as four in the name of public safety, proclaiming the ironic mantra, “If it saves just one child, then the law is worth it.” Tell me, are we willing to destroy the lives of many children to save “just one child?”
By: Bluebird on 5/25/09
My question is who supervises the principal and does her evaluations? The woman is going to retire in a year. If all of this is not reflected in her personnel file she can apply for positions in other school districts. Is the fact that she had drunk driving charge in her record. As I recall she was in total denial about having an alcohol problem.
She has failed to protect her students and it appears she has broken the law by not reporting timely. The two boys she suspended appear to have serious behavior problems that will not be helped by suspension. The 3rd grader has all the signs of having been sexually abused himself and he said he was beaten because the principal suspended him.
Action, not hand wringing by the school district is required.
By: BeenThereDoneThat on 5/25/09
I say it sounds like time for an investigation by the state. Don’t leave it to the county. They are up to their own you know what’s, in all their own B.S. they create.
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