Quiescent county Web site stirring suspicions

April 4, 2008

By KAREN VELIE and DANIEL BLACKBURN

A Web site maintained by San Luis Obispo County’s Clerk-Recorder’s office – which provides property deed transaction data and other public information and is routinely updated weekly — has been dormant for 36 days.

The site’s lack of relevance quickly became a cause of concern for some investors who have placed funds with a troubled Paso Robles hard money lender, Estate Financial.

Clerk-Recorder Julie Rodewald attributed the site’s inactivity to a missing technician and promised a quick fix. But the site had not yet restored to a current status by midday Thursday.

The Web site contains general information on the Clerk-Recorder’s office as well as a searchable database to allow public access to official county records.

The situation raises a question of conflict of interest, according to several investors who talked to a reporter. Roderick Rodewald, the clerk-recorder’s husband, is a San Luis Obispo attorney whose clients include Estate Financial and its president, Karen Guth.

UncoveredSLO.com posted an article March 14 reporting the apparent unraveling of Estate Financial and actions and practices of its two top officers, Guth and her son, Joshua Yaguda . That article detailed the alleged loss of millions of dollars by a large number of investors, many of whom said they had been hindered in their efforts to contact others with funds in Guth’s hands.

Three days after that article appeared, several hundred EF investors expressing deep concern and growing anger met at San Luis Bay Inn to exchange stories, loan data, phone numbers and action plans.

“At a time when Estate Financial is not forthcoming with investor data, the Clerk-Recorder’s office is one of the few options investors have,” said one person who has been regularly monitoring the Web site’s lack of progress, wrote in an e-mail to UncoveredSLO.com.

Numerous individuals allege that Estate Financial has sold properties and failed to repay investors. Consequently, many investors rely on the Clerk-Recorder’s Web site to follow activity or changes involving their properties. The site provides information showing if any reconveyance (loan repayments) have occurred; or if Estate Financial is foreclosing on specific properties.

Investors might be unaware that the site has been outdated during the month-plus dormancy, and as a result may be relying on stagnant information during a period when numerous Estate Financial transactions might be occurring.

Julie Rodewald said she has been out of the office on personal matters and has not been able to facilitate updates.

“Our system is not a county standard system,” she told UncoveredSLO.com, “and our IT guy is out. The (county’s Information Technology Department) doesn’t manage our AS400 (computer program). That we are trying to deny access to documents because of Estate Financial is absolutely not true.”

A source in Information Technology said any one of more than two dozen county technicians could have easily and quickly handled the usual updating. Other computer experts contacted by UncoveredSLO.com said keeping the county Clerk-Recorder’s site current is not a complex undertaking, suggesting the site’s update is virtually a push-button exercise.

Julie Rodewald said this week she would have nothing to gain from trying to affect the Web site’s current status.

“This begs the question, can he or I do anything?” Julie Rodewald said when asked if her husband’s work for Estate Financial has created at least the impression of a conflict of interest. “Our personal lives are separate from our professional lives. All recordings are public record.”

Roderick Rodewald, too, scoffed at the suggestion of a conflict.

“How in the world could I assist Karen Guth through my wife’s office?” he wondered recently. He also noted that he and his wife have “heard the allegations” but insisted no conflict exists. He disavowed any involvement with Estate Financial other than providing legal counsel.

One of Roderick Rodewald’s counsel chores was to chastise Myron “Mike” Knecht, who placed an advertisement in local periodicals seeking to locate and organize other EF investors. The lawyer wrote in a Sept. 2007 letter and e-mail to Knecht that his ads were having “an adverse affect on our clients’ business.”

Roderick Rodewald added, “Your advertisements have a chilling effect on both further investments in the mortgage fund and on the fractional loan investments, with corresponding harm to your fellow investors and my clients’ business. I would urge you to discuss this with your attorney… as such statements could expose you to significant legal liability.”

Knecht said he checked with his own attorney.

“By Karen Guth’s own admission, ‘investment capital will not be returned at any time in the foreseeable future,’ (so) my statement was not actionable. Something about the truth being a defense,” Knecht wrote in a reply to EF’s lawyer.

Some EF investors have also questioned an apparent new practice at the Clerk-Recorder’s requiring names and addresses of people seeking deed information.

“Sometimes we may ask for a person to sign, sometimes not,” said Julie Rodewald. “There’s a form to fill out. You don’t have to sign it. We are not keeping tabs on people who come into the office. Every little thing becomes a conspiracy.”

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By: Anonymous on 4/18/08

Yvonne – Don't you think it's pathetic that you are having to resort to this blog to get your answers? I don't give a rats ass about Karen Guth SAYING about how she'll open her books as of today's meeting. They have the info, you have the right to walk into EFI and get that info. Get back in there and ask for what you deserve! If not, comlain to the DRE, FBI, Dept of Corporations. This is a numbers game, the more complaints the better.

By: Anonymous on 4/17/08

I don't think "keeping score" is the tone that should be set here— this may be funny to you or a tit for tat situation, but to many of us this is very serious business. We all have a lot to lose.


I was at the meeting today, I didn't get a sense of who won and who didn't. It's a shame that it took someone from outside of Estate Financial to call a meeting– this is exactly what Estate Financial should have done a long, long time ago.


It's very hard to have faith in a company that doesn't communicate well, and didn't/doesn't see the value in communication.


What's puzzling is how everything came to a huge stop all at once—- something caught up with the folks at Estate Financial,— of course it's the market, but had things been running properly I doubt it would have had a sudden halt.


The question that keeps coming to my mind is where do we go from here— if the things that are being said are true about Estate Financial, nothing has been accomplished from the meeting—


Because there's 3 "sides" the mortgage fund, the deed holders and the builders, I'm wondering if we had a meeting with only one section of this group if we could accomplish more—


In regards to manpower at EF— I know of an investor that has this background and offered FREE help– but, I guess EF doesn't want anyone in their files!


By: Anonymous on 4/17/08

Estate Finanicial 1

Ron Cooper 0


By: Anonymous on 4/17/08

Looking for others who are a part of Estate's Wolfhouse Inn Project in Glen Ellen, Sonoma Co., CA (APN no.054-070-032) If there are other lenders on that project out there reading this please call me at (805)602-0088. It would be good for all of us to start talking.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

There will be a meeting of the investors on the Hinds Ave.project in Pismo Beach. Loan #518-05 on Monday April 21, 2008 at 12 noon at the Colony Inn Hall; 3600 El Camino Real, Atascadero. It is located next door to the Kennedy Nautilis Center. 805-466-4449. The purpose of the meeting is to hear about the different options available to the investors, to hear from the investors as to what they want to do, and to vote on these options. It is very important that all voting investors attend this meeting. Karen Guth, EFI President, Tony Wells a developer, Madeline Winn the junior lien holder, Wyndham Resorts, and two other interested developers will be there to tell us what they have to offer.

This meeting is definitely happening; if you want a voice in what happens to your investment on this project, then you should attend this meeting.You may e-mail me at bluesky41144@yahoo.com and put in the subject line, loan 518-05 or call me 805-610-6331

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Does anyone know who Carole Deane is of the Carole Deane LLC? Is she related to the Guth Family? Local or out of town?

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Clueless: If a Lot Number exists but no APN it "probably" means that the County Assessor has not segregated that lot from the other lots in a subdivision. This is one plausable explanation. There may be others.


As for "where the money went" come to the meeting tomorrow in Atascadero and we'll all discuss that.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

And to add to my last comment, her building is only 75% – 95% complete. Also, the money taken by Estate Financial was to fund the home 100%. Any answers anyone?

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Ef is taking 1% off the top of the mortgage fund income to pay themselves. I imagine that is quite a bit of money. Investors need someone who will work for us to earn that money, instead of Ef which is currently only working for the benefit of Guth's pet projects, or for those within her "circle." At the meeting on Thursday, let's hear from attorneys who have a plan to remove EF as manager. We investors need to hear some ideas of approaches we can take which will be the most efficient and cost effective. Perhaps attorneys could also discuss how they should be paid and how this can be worked out given the large number of investors and their varying interests and needs.

The current forward momentum is pushing towards the state taking over as a receivership. If this happpens a court and judge will have to approve every single action. Blood sucking attornies will eat up every single penny.

To fight this, instead of all these small factions, we need to unite, have 1-4 attorneys prepare the action, remove EF as manager, replace them with a manager who will work for everyone's benefit.

Time is of the essence. We will all lose money. If we can somehow work this out, we will not lose everything.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

i know a woman who invested in a project with no APN number, only a lot number. There is a building on the lot. Shouldn't it have an APN at that point. EF told her a couple weeks ago that there was no APN. She does have a loan number. Could someone explain how that can be?


By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Mike Knecht


By the way imagine how much more they will have in attorney and engineering fees than if you handled it yourselves. They will roll all sorts of old bills to attorneys and the like into your new loans necessary to repair this mess. So basically "the investors" will be paying to defend Estate. How ironic.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Mike Knecht


I applaud you for putting your name right out there. you are right. By time they fix all the problems they "EF" will be owed so much money there will be nothing left for the investors. It's not like the investors wont have costs if they take over the managment but at least they will have oversight. EF will charge a premium for everthing. They will use buddies for lawyers, contractors, architects, engineers, and new loan brokers. Then to add insult to injury they will once again be in charge of disbursment of the funds. Who do you think they will disburse to first? The letter they sent out was intended to release steam from the building momentum to remove them from thier fiduciary responsibilities. Don't fall for it. As you have seen before thier rage and hate for all of you is just below the surface.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

Re Mike Knecht


The same situation exists in Paso at the Monte Vista development, but with this twist…a month ago a spoke to a guy who was measuring off one of the properties in Mionte Vista, turns out it was Bill Laor of Wm loar Construction…said he had a contract to finish the properties there that were financed by EF…..so far there is no progress, probably due to expired permits


that's all i got

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

I received a letter from Karen/Josh on April 15 that was sent to all of the mortgage fund investors. The letter seemed so professional and reassuring that for a moment I forgot about the meeting I had with Karen on April 2, 08. The meeting came to an abrupt end when I asked Karen what the carrying costs are on the mortgage fund. When I say carrying costs I mean how much does the fund lose every month from Estate Financial fees, real estate taxes, and maintenance and interest costs. Karen said she didn’t know. The second time I asked the question, Karen tossed me out of the conference room. Anyone who thinks things are as Karen says should visit the Guth/Feytco development at Regio Place in Atascadero. The APN on one house is 149 424 024. Karen talks about unfinished construction that will require additional funding to complete. The houses in this subdivision are priced way over market. The uncompleted houses have weather damage, weeds in the front yard and worst of all some building permits have expired. To complete these houses you will need to upgrade the wiring to the new code and re-pay the permit fee. This is not some renegade developer that didn’t know what he was doing. This is a Guth partnership project that wasn’t funded to completion and because of that failure, the value of the project is going down the toilet daily. Anyone seeking more information about this specific development fiasco or more details about my meeting with Karen should contact me at mjk122085@aol.com. Karen mentions working together in her letter. Fund investors need to work together to find someone to manage the fund that will tell you how much money you are losing on your investment every month as well as the names and addresses of other fund members and the APN’s of property in the fund.

By: Anonymous on 4/16/08

SmartOne – You are just so very smart! So smart I wonder if you are involved in the scam? Are you a buddy of Karen's? Everyone, I do mean EVERYONE who is involved in this fraud are probably old cronies that don't quite understand NEWER technology. You are probably already all doomed but don't have a clue yet. Speaking of living in the dark ages! You'll see. Just wait and see!


By: Anonymous on 4/15/08

The Smart One says


In retrospect, we all look stupid. At the time, we all seemed smart.

By: Anonymous on 4/15/08

Anyone who has to rely on the Clerk Recorders website for property and deed info is living in the dark ages, but then again people investing in EF were living in the dark ages. EF look for the un educated sheep who like to follow the crowd. Investing with a company like EF to make money is so out of date you deserve what ever you get.

By: Anonymous on 4/15/08

I have sat back long enough watching these blogs, hoping against hope that these accusations against Estate were wrong. Well they are not wrong.


I have just learned that Estate sold a property I have an interest in through a fractionalized first deed of trust. That sale occurred more than 6 months ago. I have not seen a penny of my investment and interest payments stopped late last year.


Mrs. Guth – where is my money? Did you steal it?

By: Anonymous on 4/15/08

ESTATE FINANCIAL LAWSUITS


On April 8th two major subcontractors who worked for San Dimas 18, LLC sued San Dimas 18, LLC, ESTATE FINANCIAL, INC. AND ESTATE FINANCIAL MORTGAGE FUND, LCC.


Why does that matter! Because other subcontractors will likely begin their own lawsuits. And the more lawsuits Estate has to defend the costlier it is going to be for all investors.


Case # KC052088 and KC052068. Pomona court (Los Angeles County)Attorney for Plaintiffs is Jonathan Zeko -619-233-7078

By: Anonymous on 4/15/08

Would like contact with any investor in the following loans B17705,lot 11 Tract 1259, SLO,Alan Little, Bl6605,31 lots known APN 0l8-172-067 Hanford & Bl00-04 10l-04, l02-04 Mountain View,ca. Need Communication from all investors in these loans please,650-966-1568 or email jfcasebolt&mail.com

By: Anonymous on 4/15/08


I hired a Private Investigator long ago to investigate all she could in this situation. She after about one week followed the paper trail and as much of the money as she could. It went through so many Banks and Private Equity Funds and this so called Private Lenders it made my head spin.


She thus far learned it was an ongoing money laundering scam for others who had assets they wanted to co-mingle with good monies. The names she found out are: Bryan Troxler, Thomas Habbick, Robert JS Fowler, Atascadero Ventures, LLC, Verdot Group, Hertel Group, Hertel Investments Rossi Enterprises, Karl Wittstrom, WADCO, LLC Santa Margarita Farms, and over a dozen profit sharing programs and scams. So Investor beware and now hire a good well known Law Firm and none locally got to the Bay area or LA . This is so much bigger of a Con Game than we all know. My Investigator is packaging it all together to send to the FBI & IRS. If you all have nothing to hide report it to the Authorities.


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Read the latest about the Three Bells Winery. Interesting about the VERDOT group and how they all just hired the same attorney. Just trying to connect the dots but I would guess they are somehow tide to Karen Guth.


http://www.uncoveredslo.com/?id=89&showEntry=

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Julie, I think you may have a surprise coming.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

There are several factions out there working towards a similar goal: that of retrieving all or a part of each person's investment. There are two different avenues, both which have a different path. There are the members of the mortgage fund. This group needs to unite. Together an attorney would not be so expensive. Together we can force the issue of EF handing over the list of properties as well as names of all the mortgage fund members. As it stands now, Karen Guth can pay off who she feels like, she can manipulate sales and payoffs and the fund members have no information to do anything about it. This was how the mortgage fund was intentionally set up, giving Estate complete control over an enormous amount of money.

There are also the first trust deed holders. This group needs to get a majority of the holders of each loan together and simply approach Estate financial and let them know the investors will be taking back the title and do not need further assistance from EF.

My main point is that we need to collaborate and to work together. There is strength in numbers…strength in the physical labor, strength in the combined knowledge, the financial power….Let's meet on Thursday with a goal of consolidating our considerable resources and moving forward.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Ron Cooper


I hope we can shed some light on the real issue with Estate Financial and its players. I'll be there and you know who I am. The smear attempt shoud be taken atits face value. Its a smear attempt, but we'l get through it. Whoever tried, surely failed.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Let's take a step back and get focused on our objective.

We have an important meeting on Thursday and at this time it is our best chance is to present a united front. Anyone who has positive input

about this meeting should start puting those thoughts on this site. Each one of us has a valid opinion and you should be heard. Please dont get caught up in mud slinging. If those of you who think Karen G. is still protecting your investment, I hope I can say you were right but if not we must try to be on the same page. We will need the most cost effective legal advice we can find. We will also need to organize our documatation and share with others so we have a defined direction.

lets see some ideas on this blog. and make sure you attend the meeting.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Ron Cooper says:


MEETING


DATE: Thursday April 17th

START TIME: 2:30PM

LOCATION: Atascadero

Colony Park Community Center

5599 Traffic Way

Traffic way exit off of 101 Whether going N or S


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Has anyone determined who is "leading" the Three Bells Winery group yet?

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave: I have no problem with you posting the "other side of the coin." That's what a good reporter does. It doesn't make what the email said truthful, nor does it make it a lie.


For those who attended the first public meeting I OFFERED UP the information about the bankruptcy. No one asked. I offered it up.


I am NOBODY's "boy" but that is not the only misstatement in the email. I have a major interest in both my my projects. Estate's foreclosure in the San Dimas project is being litigated. But I discussed that in detail at the first meeting.


Anyway, this blog is not about me so I wont waste anymore space.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

I admit there is some irony in the following question, but


Why do so many of these threads end up being about Dave Congalton?


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

confused says:


I think we all confused. However the fact remains;

Where is the money? Now, that is confusing1

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

do ya think for a minute that the RC info is a lie; not wrong, not almost, but a friggin lie…..give it some thought, please

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave Congalton KVEC920AM


Dave, I don't know who sent the information on Ron Cooper, but as we all know tax files are private and not available to the public at all. It can only be available to creditors with the consent of the borrower. So, it begs a HUGE question. Who would be a creditor to Ron Cooper and who would pass such information to you?

Could it be an insider at EF? or could it be someone who might be working for the government with access to certain files? Maybe, there is more to this issue.


Just an opinion

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Suppose Ron did have a line of BK's, failed loans and investments and no taxes filed. This is the person Estate made a huge loan to practcally overnight. Thanks for protecting the investors Estate.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Everyone take a deep breath, please. Remember me? I'm the guy who gave 30 minutes of radio time Friday night to both Ron Cooper and Karen Velie to update this story. You know where my heart lies.


The comments I posted this morning were from an angry KVEC listener. I am merely sharing them with you to give you a sense of the "other side."


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

HEY Anonymous says


The purpose of my post is show that anyones nickname here can be compromised..what that means is that a lot of this info is suspect…I'm sure you can comprehand that.


Wise up!

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Confused: This site has a tremendous value to all of use investors who cannot obtain any information for the source – Karen Guth-Joshua Yaguda.

I believe that 90% of the bogs are completely accurate and disagree with you that this site has zero crediability.


The fact that you admit using Dave's name shows all of us that you have zero crediability. Ron Cooper HAS GIVEN OUT HIS EMAIL AND TELEPHONE.


How about you doing the same so we all know who your are.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

paso guy says:


insider:


Again, why don't some one look into Karen's LLC. BC filing? Check out where did the money go from the Winery project, get the details of the Pismo project with a $2,200,000 finder's fee? Yes, there is much more to dig up in that area. Estate Financial's money problem clearly did not start with the sub-prime mortgage meltdown. It started much earlier at least six years or more. How about digging into their background a little more intrusively. You maybe shocked about the magnitude of the problems.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave – are you even aware that Ron was trying to reach his investors to make an offer. Karen didn't give him the investor information nor did she pass on his offer to the investors. The investors were in the dark. This has cost the EF investors lots of money! I feel Karen is at fault here. But Ron, feel free to add more.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave,


Very irresponsible of you to post that blog! Sure, there are a lot of LLCs going belly up due to the markets. If he didn't make any money for 6 years, well, then so be it but which taxes are we talking about – his personal income, his businesses? Trust me, if he was scamming the IRS they would be more than all over him. How dare you post a letter when you don't know it's true or untrue.


Also, I would be more inclined to believe someone else used Dave's name for THEIR OWN AGENDA (any clues as to who?). I can't believe Dave would be so careless to add a letter like that in his blog. Also if, in fact, Julie's relative passed away, I still don't see the relavencce. Why couldn't the ITs update the system? It stands to reason other employees have the ability to update. SO WHAT if JULIE was gone from the office, she should have passed on that responsiblity. Remember the article states "A source in Information Technology said any one of more than two dozen county technicians could have easily and quickly handled the usual updating."


Common – 36 days?????? Be real! Dave, how dare you!


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

I just posted under Dave Congalton KVEC920AM and did so without any need for a password or anything special. What does that tell us about this blog? That banyone can post using anyones name. This place has zero cred!

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

i refute my previous post

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave Congalton KVEC920AM says:


So what if Ron Cooper has all those issues? Why would you file taxes if there were no income to report? Maybe, he has more damage because of Estate Financial than he let us know. The issue is not Ron Cooper, its Estate Financial and a the questinable deals they've done which caused the problem in the first place. Ron Cooper did not missapplied your fund, he never got it even if he paid for it through the loan.

Keep focusing on the real issue. On the other hand, you maybe of EF's employ.

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

insider:


the RE market hasn't been in the toilet for 6 years..so EF is not the reason, if there really is a reason..if this is even true….I have serious doubts about everything that is posted here. Including Me!


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Be carefull who you trust


You are only required to file taxes if you make money. Is it possible when you stopped funding this mans construction you forced him into bankruptcy. So if he has not filed taxes maybe there is a reason. And maybe EF is the reason.


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Dave Congalton KVEC920AM :


What is your source for this info…have you followed up to see if it's True?


This blog has a plethera of doubtful info.


Any of you Ron Cooper groupies find fault with Dave C.'s contribution?

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Annie – check your e-mail, please.


Folks, from my prospective, "stop loss" is the name of the game from this point forward. Let's get very focused on how to put that principal into effect.


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

I received this email today, following Ron Cooper calling into my show on Friday to announce this week's meeting. FYI.


"I did a little back ground check on your boy Ron Cooper…Did you know that this man has not filed a Federal or State Tax return in over 6 years? I also looked


On the LA County recorder’s office and he no longer has a loan with Estate Financial, it was foreclosed on months ago. This man has filed bankruptcy under so many LLC’s


It’s a joke….I’m sure if you called a few investors in Southern California they would tell you how much money they have lost because of RON COOPER. The man is not the one that should be leading ANY investors anywhere!!


I used to really like your show because your presented both sides of the story. I feel this show has been very one sided against Estate Financial. As an example, Julie Roderwald was out of the office for a few days due to the DEATH of her FATHER (SHAME ON YOU!!) Last year you had Julie on your show and had nothing but nice things to say about this woman? What factual data do you have that caused you to change your opinion of Julie? SLO county recorder is not the only county that is behind on their postings of Foreclosures…..It is going on all over the state…..GET REAL…. We are having a 30 year RECORD of Foreclosures across the country….


Thank you for your time in this matter….……..You need to WAKE UP!!!"


By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

BJ says:


It was a sobering moment to read the Security and Exchange commissions involvement in shutting down the San Diego firm which operated exactly like EF. It makes me strongly believe that what we have been involved with, is in reality, a Ponzi scheme. I went to http://www.sec.gov where I filled out a complaint form. The Federal government is only too happy to hear about cases like this, which,if we investors lose our money, that's a loss of millions and millions of dollars in lost tax revenue. In my complaint, I explained the particulars of my situation, but I also let them know that EF refuses to give the investors information about what is happening, as well as information about who is in the mortgage fund and what their share of the interests are. To get faster action, I recommend those with the time and initiative, to go to http://www.sec.gov and urge them to investigate.


And make a complaint ASAP!

Google: Emvest mortgage fund fraud SEC pdf

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

Ron Cooper says:


MEETING


DATE: Thursday April 17th

START TIME: 2:30PM

LOCATION: Atascadero

Colony Park Community Center

5599 Traffic Way

Traffic way exit off of 101 Whether going N or S

By: Anonymous on 4/14/08

for those of you new to this, you must be aware that there are numerous complaints ajoined with lawyers that can't be discussed on this website. It may look like folks are crying about their 12% loss but it's much, much deeper than that. Call EF and get all facts you are entitled to in black and white. Watch out! Karen's attitude may change if you do and it most likely won't be for the better.