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Estate Financial chiefs’ arraignments postponed

October 27, 2008
Karen Guth talks to investors while son Josh Yaguda listens, months before their arrests.

Karen Guth talks to investors while son Josh Yaguda listens, months before their arrests.

By THE EDITORS

San Luis Obispo Superior Court Judge Jac Crawford Monday agreed to continue the arraignment of Estate Financial Inc. principles Karen Guth and her son Joshua Yaguda on 26 felony charges to Nov. 21.

Irvine-based attorney Dyke Huish requested the delay to allow time to retain and brief a second defense attorney. Crawford also granted Guth and Yaguda access to discovery.

Bail remains at $5 million for each suspect. If either Guth or Yaguda try to post bail, a hearing will be held by district attorney officials to determine if money is tainted before bond can be accepted. This follows a separate motion filed by the district attorney’s deputies.

Huish suggested it would be very difficult to find unbiased jurors in this county but declined comment on plans to seek a change in venue.

“I intend to work closely with the district attorney’s office to come to a reasonable and fair conclusion to this case,” Huish added.

“We would oppose a venue change,” said Deputy District Attorney Steve VonDohlen.

Karen Guth gives investors her version of where their money went.

Karen Guth gives investors her version of where their money went.

Enticed by the promise of generous returns on property-secured investments, approximately 3,400 investors entrusted nest eggs with EFI. In July, EFI’s portfolio contained more than $317 million in monies owed to investors. Of that, only $21,000 remained unencumbered just a few months ago.

Guth and Yaguda were arrested Oct. 16 by a joint task force including agents from the state departments of Corporations and Real Estate, the district attorneys office, the IRS, and the FBI. Criminal charges include disseminating false information to investors; failure to inform investors when properties sold; and unlawful sales to out-of-state residents.

The issue, said Huish, is whether the pair planned to defraud investors, or if they simply conducted poor business practices.


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By: Nameless on 11/3/08

TempletonPilots:

And PIGS DO FLY


Remember, they resigned as EFI's officers on June 30, 2008. The still were able to grab som crums while on their way out.

Modest for sure by previous standards


Karen Guth President


06/30/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

05/15/2008 Unknown 5,000.00

04/24/2008 Unknown 3,000.00

04/04/2008 Unknown 75,000.00

02/19/2008 Unknown 5,000.00

11/19/2007 Unknown 30,000.00

10/18/2007 Unknown 4,500.00

08/21/2007 Unknown 5,000.00

08/17/2007 Unknown 2,000.00

08/01/2007 Unknown 8,000.00

07/24/2007 Unknown 400,000.00

07/18/2007 Unknown 5,000.00

07/06/2007 Unknown 150,000.00

07/02/2007 Unknown 30,000.00

05/15/2008 Travel & Ent 2,809.00

06/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

05/31/2008 Salary 6,041.67

05/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

04/30/2008 Salary 6,041.67

04/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

03/31/2008 Salary 6,041.67

03/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

02/29/2008 Salary 6,041.67

02/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

01/31/2008 Salary 6,041.67

01/15/2008 Salary 6,041.67

12/31/2007 Salary 6,041.67

12/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

11/30/2007 Salary 6,041.67

11/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

10/31/2007 Salary 6,041.67

10/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

09/30/2007 Salary 6,041.67

09/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

08/31/2007 Salary 6,041.67

08/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

07/31/2007 Salary 6,041.67

07/15/2007 Salary 6,041.67

06/30/2007 Salary 6,041.67


Total Karen Guth: 880,309.08


And the co-defandant

Josh Yaguda Vice President


Resigned on 6/30/2008. Still able to cash a check two days later


07/02/2008 Unknown 25,000.00

06/30/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

06/27/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

05/15/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

05/02/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

04/30/2008 Unknown 3,488.38

04/04/2008 Unknown 75,000.00

03/30/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

01/22/2008 Unknown 10,000.00

09/28/2007 Unknown 1,500.00

09/27/2007 Unknown 10,000.00

07/24/2007 Unknown 100,000.00

07/13/2007 Unknown 2,311.18

07/13/2007 Unknown 737.56

07/13/2007 Unknown 10,000.00

06/26/2007 Unknown 10,000.00

06/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

05/31/2008 Salary 3,541.61

05/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

04/30/2008 Salary 3,541.61

04/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

03/31/2008 Salary 3,541.61

03/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

02/29/2008 Salary 3,541.61

02/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

01/31/2008 Salary 3,541.61

01/15/2008 Salary 3,541.61

12/31/2007 Salary 3,541.61

12/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

11/30/2007 Salary 3,541.61

11/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

10/31/2007 Salary 3,541.61

10/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

09/30/2007 Salary 3,541.61

09/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

08/31/2007 Salary 3,541.61

08/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

07/31/2007 Salary 3,541.61

07/15/2007 Salary 3,541.61

06/30/2007 Salary 3,541.61


Total Josh Yaguda: $383,035.76

By: Riley on 11/3/08

…make that "to be reasonable."


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By: Riley on 11/3/08

Oh TempletonPilots – can't you see these people have been tried and convicted by the victims already? The victims are unable (financially possibly) or unwilling to move on, their anger at themselves/EFI/the system overwhelms their ability to be reason.


Let Yaguda go home, harvest the crop (I know, one of you did a driveby and didn't see olives, but they are there). Let Karen go home and do whatever as well. Well, that is, excluding driving her Jaquar (or the Mercedes the reporters claimed she owned) and getting lattes. Maybe we can make them wear stripes and ankle bracelets. Face it, defending themselves is going to cost them everything, their being in jail is costing all of us, and the victims apparently want to spread their suffering to all. Good job.

By: TempletonPilots on 11/3/08

Mismanaging money in an effort to keep a sinking business afloat and protect investors is very different than stealing money. So far, all that I have seen is that some transactions took place without proper licensing and that funds went from one place to another to help keep the whole business afloat.


These aren't people living in some over the top mansion in Beverley Hills. They live on a modest ranch way out in the country. They attend local public schools and don't have jets, yachts, etc. They have been in business for 18 years, with people eager to invest with them all those years.


The real estate market went south. Their business, based 100% on real estate, tanked. They broke some rules trying to keep it afloat and should be held accountable to their investors. But jail is wholly inappropriate and sad. Millions of Americans have lost money in this real estate market. It is sad to see people on this site gloating about a local family being torn apart at gunpoint.


The only thing worse than being in the Yaguda's position is to have to be a person who rejoices in seeing a father in prison. For the vast majority who lost most of their money and who are angry at the way their money was handled, I support and sympathize with you. I hope that the legal system will hold the Yaguda's accountable financially, and that you will receive as much as possible in return. For those who glory in seeing a Grandma in chains, well more important than wishing you the return of your money, I wish some human decency for you.

By: Nameless on 11/2/08

Use_it_or_Lose_it


Mohandas Gandhi also said; “A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not help to solve them is no religion”.

Also, Martin Luther King, Jr. had a dream where a man is not judged by the color of his skin. Both rose up to the occasion and made the world better. If Mohandas Gandhi accepted the contemporary common wisdom the British would have been in India much longer. For his uncompromising action, the Moslem portion of India seceded in a bloody process and blood still flows in time to time. Not only between the Hindus and Moslem, but amongst themselves the Pakistanis and Kashmiries/India and even it spill over to Bangladesh (formerly part of Pakistan).

Martin Luther King, Jr. had a dream, but without acting upon it who knows where would the country be?


Karen and Josh had done a huge injustice to individuals which affecting many communities especially SLO county. Laws were put in place to prevent such actions. Currently the law is dealing with them as it should be. If we were in the part of the world where people use their left hand for "unseemly" uses (i.e. wiping their behind and don’t shake hand) J and K would be treated according to their customs. In other word, two lamp posts in Paso Robles would be decorated with two dangling corps. So let’s appreciate this country where people who caused so much suffering can be placed in front of a judge or jury. In the meantime let us vent our displeasure and enjoy their demise.

By: Use_it_or_Lose_it on 11/2/08

Dear Nameless. There is another way to understand the idea of "turn the other cheek" a study of the culture at the time does some good. You will find this not in the christian bible, but in the study of the bible.


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By: George on 11/1/08

"a con artist's goal is not to gain the confidence of his mark, but to give his own confidence to the mark."

By: Booty_Juice on 11/1/08

All will be fine if you just place your soul and faith in the hands of jesus christ our lord, the father, the virgin mary, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, and santa clause.


Amen.

By: Riley on 11/1/08

oh-oh, lest you think I meant you "LET" them take your money away, I did not. Take control of what you have left, you can do that without being ugly. You will have more credibility with those people you are counting on (justice system) to make it right…if that's possible.


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By: Riley on 11/1/08

Bastards, not basterds.


How's your blood pressure now. Someone wrote and gave more of you courage to blast out again, possibly missing my point.


I call no one greedy, human nature led you in, and human nature is working against you with your attitude. I have a lot of compassion for those who lost in this misadventure, too many are friends. One of you admitted to their spirituality being challenged in their inability to have compassion for J & K. If all you have left is your dignity, your beliefs, how dare you let them take that away as well as your money.

By: Nameless on 11/1/08

TempletonPilots , Obama and Riley


In conclusion, am I pleased that they are locked up facing numerous charges? You bet I am and I am not alone. My Christian upbringing to turn my other cheek has failed me for now. Not for not wanting to be compassionate, but I have no more cheeks left. I have nothing to share, but misery. My kids don’t get the same understanding as Josh’s kids from you. I and my family must be without everything that I worked for because of the BASTERDS. By the way, you should have more understanding on the ones who lost everything with no chance of recovery. The elders who were as gullible as you neighbor. The borrowers who believed they were dealing with honest legitimate lender(s). Have compassion for the investors who will not only seen their investment go to a dime or a nickel on the dollar, but potentially be liable for repayment of moneys received. It’s all because unknowingly they were part of the PONZY game Karen and Josh perpetrated on them. How much more compassion you want?

By: Nameless on 11/1/08

TempletonPilots , Obama and Riley


I agree that the small kids must be out of this picture. I wholeheartedly disagree with the comments that this was a high risk high return game and we should have understood the potential risk. Ten to twelve percent interest is not so high and is only risky if it’s stolen.


If you feel so strongly about your position that investors would understand the risk as you did losing and making big box on and off, I have a recommendation to you and all who are so high minded. Whatever you invested with EFI, give up your claim for the benefit of others. Put your money where your mouth is.


With all being said, I must concede an important point; anyone who refinanced their homes took out large or all their equity for an easy 10 to 12% while paying 5% to the bank was a fool. Retirees placing their entire nest eggs with Karen (or in any one place) rather irresponsible. However, it makes none of them greedy as you point out so venomously.

By: Nameless on 11/1/08

TempletonPilots , Obama and Riley


Most of the loans were made several years ago and somehow Karen and Josh never really tended the store as the offering claimed. They let the loans go on and on while the interest was paid on the principal by EFI despite not receiving any from the borrower. Karen Guth and Joshua Yaguda couldn’t just go and foreclose on the properties in default, because EFI was in default in their contract. What a legal nightmare they were to invite!


Additionally, over a $100,000,000 loaned to companies Karen and Josh were either part of or owned outright. How much money was taken out from that loan under different categories (management fee, reimbursable expenses, etc) is not known at this time. To top it off, Karen was able to collect the initial points and fees as her commission and 2% management fees each year on the balance. Remember, a large portion of that loan was set aside for interest reserves which gave additional cushion in running the game.


Now that all this had come to an end. Most of the funds dissipated, EFMF giving them a legal cover (until uncovered) not to share investors information where and what property the funds were invested in. I assume portion of the money went to pay investors interest who came in early and spread the good word (as you neighbor did) drawing more investors in some with almost $3,000,000.


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By: Nameless on 11/1/08

TempletonPilots , Obama and Riley


Your nobly intended comment is well taken by many who were not granted the same from either Karen Guth or Joshua Yaguda. You state that a neighbor invested with them $300,000 and had good experience is what makes this entire situation so sad. It clearly shows how the pair was able to get more innocent people into their net. That’s why this case going to be handled not only embezzlement and FRAUD, but a huge PONZY game. They have diligently paid interest on the original investments with new investor money until the entire stack of cards collapsed. Imagine if they were to let your neighbor know that the interest they are receiving is not coming from borrowers, and the same borrowers couldn’t make those payments because they never really received the funds was bargained for. And your neighbor didn’t much care where that money is coming from as long it was showing up in their mailbox promptly every month.

By: Jim on 10/31/08

hotdog:

Thank you for putting into print… what I felt after reading those notes…

I read about E.F. on the internet… called and talked to a financial planner about them… talked with several investors…

Okay… with 20/20 hindsight it was dumb of me to invest my $$$ with them…

But I did…

And it is gone…

Not much fun being kicked when one is down…

By: hotdog on 10/31/08

Sadly, the last three posters and some others failed to read the posts, read the news articles, read the DRE and DOC licensing suspensions. They generally fail to see much, or maybe they look but are blind. I won't go into the FACTS again but just want to point out the fallacy of the thinking mentioned in these posts.


Our four failed hard money lenders RIPPED OFF their clients. They did it with intention and for a long time. That is why two of them from one company are in jail, and hopefully more coming soon. The victims are delighted, and will continue to relish any inconvenience to the former high rollers (on our dime). It's all about justice. Without consequences everything falls apart; ALL civilizations are based on that.


I do appreciate that the previous posters can actually spell; I wish they could read and think as well. Tossing the slightest criticism at the victims other than trusting too much (even this has already been covered) is cruel and foolish. They have some gall, leaning on us for getting a bit of satisfaction in seeing the creaky wheels of justice slowly grind to a start.


I have a feeling the nay sayers have no clue the devastation this massive fraud has caused thousands of their fellow citizens, many way too old to ever recover.


By: Obama on 10/31/08

Ditto. Spewing hatred gets you nothing. The whole country is hurting.

By: TempletonPilots on 10/31/08

I agree with the last post. Anyone glorifying in the destruction of this family and relishing seeing them in handcuffs, is worthless — not just financially.


I had a neighbor recommend investing with Estate Financial. They invested $300,000 and had nothing but good experiences for several years.


I read the information Estate Financial provided — in large bold print on the very front it warned that it was a high risk investment, that the full principal invested was at risk AND not to invest more than 10% of your investment portfolio.


I lost hundreds of thousands in real estate investments the past few years (but made millions in prior years). I'm having to sue some people but would never take joy in seeing them behind bars (even though several illegally moved money around).


Hard money lending is risky. If it works you profit. If not you lose. That is why most people stick with small interest in the bank. Many people were happy to take their profits but when it comes to accepting a loss that grab their pitchforks and go after the very people who were bringing them profits when profits were to be had.


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By: Riley on 10/31/08

Wow, what insight to mob mentality and where it can take you. It's healthier, I suppose, than driving your car with this anger and need for revenge, but truly, not much. It's far too easy to trash people (and their children even) than to try and be objective and patient. The legal system works slowly, and hopefully it is more objective than some of you. Quit being victims, quit promoting rumors and, really, quit gloating about Josh and Karen being in jail and (hopefully) suffering – ratcheting up this kind of venom could end up biting you in the butt, emotionally, spiritually and physically.

By: JorgeEstrada on 10/31/08

If they have no money, who is paying the lawyer and how much. Yeah, you catch bees with money or was that honey. The real financially chalanged get the public defender. My congrats to the DA for keeping our dirty laundry right here so that justice can be served. It would be unfair to have so many victims travel to another court. Crawford, Texas?

By: Paso_Guy on 10/31/08

I was reffered to EFI by Rod Jarmin…owner of Real Property Lenders

By: Nameless on 10/30/08

CuriousGeorgeLikely,


Word ofmouth. Pleae do not blame any one.

By: CuriousGeorge on 10/30/08

Would any investors like to share how they came to invest in this venture? Was it recommended by a investment advisor or word of mouth?

By: Nameless on 10/30/08

Black_Copter_Pilot


I just looked over 500 pages of BC filing from the Trustees. We were all duped big time. No way any one had a chance in this game. The magnitude of the FRAUD is incredible.


Can't blame investors for what happened. Karen and Josh were skimming every ones money for some time.


Making new loans when hardly any existing loans were funded. Creating new entities continuously and making huge loans to themselves. We were all doomed the day we dialed their number. Karen took out over $800,000 within the last year and Josh had over $340,000 at the same time. Their operating expenses)cars fuels credit cards T/E) paid by EFI. Who knows how much was taken from loans made out to their own companies?


At the same time interest payments stopped to investors. No construction funds were available to complete projects.


If this was not planned I am just a monkey from hereon. There is only so much mismanagement that can be claimed. It was a deliberate raidng of Investors funds to the end. The BC filing should have come at least two years earlier to be saved from such a calamity.


I just hope they have a little consciousnes left so they can feel some pain.

By: Black_Copter_Pilot on 10/30/08

the way I see it, the market is responsible for 30% of the loss. Karen and Josh are responsible for another 40% loss. assuming a 70% loss.


The investors that have 100% of their money in EFI are 100% responsible for their greed stupidity


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By: Shouldhaveknown on 10/30/08

Nameless, I don't think you understood my comment as your comment back to me doesn't make sense. I feel for the investors who were duped, I know the speil these companies used and it doesn't take a slow person to be fooled. Even employees of these companies invested believing in their bosses. Now is the time to wisen up, learn from our mistakes, and stop these people now. One step in the right direction is having the possible (if not probable) bail funds reviewed. Another is to investigate and hold the rest of these companies before the owners leave jurisdiction. No one is going to fall on their sword and admit blame. Everything is blamed on the market.

By: BringInTheTrashQuick on 10/29/08

Nameless:

She's more likely to throw her pup under the bus than fall on her sword. Remember who she is.

By: Nameless on 10/29/08

Shouldhaveknown


Its easy to be smart after the fact, so let it go why anyone trusted them with their money.


If the two were able to come up with a $500,000 each (clean or by another party) still a Bail Bonding Co. would have to take the risk. What Co. will do that when their fate is 20 plus year in the slamer?


If no clean money can be obtained (remember bail money is gone when the case is closed regardless the outcome) someone needs to put up $10,000,000 worth of property and I question who would do that. So here we go, they rot for a long time.


If Karen Guth is smart, she'll plead guilty to some of the charges for less jail time and shave some off of her puppys' sentence also.


Lets see if she'll fall on her sward!!!

By: Shouldhaveknown on 10/29/08

Of course they have stashed money and of course they are a flight risk. How exactly do you think the owner of 21st Century Mortgage, Linda Kennedy, got to Costa Rica? Do you think she is living in a shack there and supporting herself as a hardworking waitress? This is going to happen over and over if it is allowed to and needs to be stopped now so these people can be brought to justice. Do you think they really ran their businesses into the ground and destroyed the financial future of countless people with "poor business practices"? It was outright fraud and greed. They knew and know exactly what they were doing. And yes, many of these companies were very convincing, I certainly understand why investors felt safe putting their money in these crooks' hands. I wouldn't feel too sorry for the families of these company owners, they will be living off of stashed money as well. Really now, if they were released they would simply skip bail and disappear.


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By: Joanne on 10/29/08

Nameless – Aren't you right about the memory loss the public will have! I say in 10-15 years and someone will pull this stunt again. Teach your children now to handle and grow their own investments without handing money over to 'specialists.' AS we all know, don't count on the school system to do that. You should be a proud parent if your kids can balance a check book as seniors in high school!

By: Joanne on 10/29/08

Yes, I agree they have stashed money. What will poor Joeli do now that she does not have an income? Perhaps reach into a pre-arranged piggy bank in a friend's safty deposit box so she too can live off the investor's cash? I hope the agencies are all over this woman's cash spending. I hope to see her working at one of the gas stations she NO LONGER OWNS for minimum wage.

By: Nameless on 10/28/08

Looking back, its easy to recognize what should of could have been a sign. For yeras the checks were coming in and tsted good. How would you know that the interest checks were being paid from new investors. In the meantime portion of the assets were diverted to their own projects. Borrowers had difficulties getting their money on time if at all, but reluctant to complain. When the stuff hit the fan it was late and fast.


Too my great suprise, still many investors are cluless as to their money and if they ever see any of it back. SO, yes people are gullable and will be. There will be more of the types of Karen Guth and Joshua Yaguda. Just give it a few more years, things will be forgotten and there will be new suckers.

By: Booty_Juice on 10/28/08

Obviously you don't understand – I met with them, twice. The second time only because they wouldn't take "no" for an answer after the first meeting and I was bored enough to appreciate the entertainment value of their dog and pony show.


I repeat: Anyone who could meet with those idiots and then hand over the value of a Happy Meal is beyond my understanding. When investing my money anywhere the first question I always ask myself is, "how easy would it be to lose it all?" In the case of EFI, Wealth Enhancement, Hurst, etc., etc. the answer to that question was, "EASY, the idiots simply had to stop picking up their phones and my money is GONE."


Take your average, run of the meth lab, north county posuer and filter $300,000,000 through his hands and see how well he resists the temptation to skim. It really is as simple as that.

By: hotdog on 10/28/08

Booty-cute comment, mostly wrong. Though she appears a fright, mug shots and other pics taken when one is in distress hardly represent what lenders saw when dealing with Guth. These are just run of the mill crooks, not unlike those who run the phone company, credit card companies and many other enterprises. They are always happy to get your business, when you have an issue they turn surly and difficult. Sounds like a lot of people.


One's appearance does not indicate criminality or intellectual capacity-just look at Palin. Nice looking woman-inside scary as hell. And there are probably over 1000 investors in hard money that do not live over the grade, yet they as well were taken in by the four defunct brokers in N County.


I do agree with your assertion they have stashed a huge nest egg somewhere, just like Hurst and the other crooks probably have. The lenders are mad as hell, and digging. The game is not over…


By: Booty_Juice on 10/28/08

If you can look at that woman and not be utterly astounded that people gave her hundreds of millions of their dollars, you live in north county!


It is also gauranteed that, of the 300 plus million that passed through their hands, at least 1% or 2% ended up untouchable and will be waiting for them upon their release.


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By: Zuke on 10/28/08

p.s. That bail hearing procedure is EXCELLENT work by Judge Crawford.

By: Zuke on 10/28/08

Of course these 2 are flight risks!


If you were facing charges from the D.A., FBI, & IRS and potentially spending a long long time behind bars, you have nothing to lose by at least trying to flee. If you get caught, that charge only adds like 7-8 years. Especially if these 2 have millions stashed somewhere…

By: Riley on 10/28/08

hmmm, understood.

By: Newsome on 10/28/08

Riley, I don't know what your mama has done, but Josh is looking at 160 years, therefore the court rightfully is viewing him as a flight risk.


About the olive ranch: I was by there today, and did not see much of a crop hanging. Further, I would hazard a guess that the ranch has been operated at a tax loss since inception; therefore, the less Josh does, the less unprofitable the ranch is, and the less tax relief HIS mama gets.


By: Riley on 10/28/08

The harvest is going to happen, why isn't Josh out and working his 16+ hour days at the Olive Ranch, would it satisfy the victims more if he were adding to their coffers or costing everyone money to keep them in jail? He's no more a flight risk than my mama, bless her heart.

By: Nameless on 10/27/08

If this entire scenerio only covered a few months, they could claim poor business practices. Their claimed to investors, since the start of the business for almost twenty years, they only had two foreclosures. According to documents uncovered, Republic properties Inc., was the company that took over foreclosed properties to avoid having them handed to the investors. By doing so, investors were kept in the dark about the real number of problems since 2000 or sooner. I don't think it will fly in the court. Fraud was perpetrated and covered up for so long that Karen even beleived it to be standard of operation. Meanwhile, people turned over more and more money getting good returns for years, no one was complaining. Not until the checks stopped comig. It was impossible for Karen and Josh to continue their Ponzy game. Too bad for Karen and Josh, some individuals were just too persistent.

By: hotdog on 10/27/08

“I intend to work closely with the district attorney’s office to come to a reasonable and fair conclusion to this case,” Huish added.

I have a suggestion. Since a So Cal broker crook recently got 162 years for his crimes let's settle for half for our crooks, how about 81 years each? I call that fair.

And better yet, why not put them out on indentured servant status to their victims? Cut it in half again, just 40.5 years of that, each. I'd love to have them for my hour and a half, be the longest hour and a half they ever spent.

By: Jim on 10/27/08

"The issue, said Huish, is whether the pair planned to defraud investors, or if they simply conducted poor business practices".

Well… in my case… it was indeed fraud (they took $$$ from me when their license had been suspended)… and when I talked to other investors (over 100 of them)… each of them shared with me… that when they asked for their $$$ back… they were either told "no"… or… they were told "yes"… but never given it…


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