Atheists cry foul over Pismo Beach City Council’s Christian invocations

July 2, 2012

Pismo Beach’s City Council may find itself in court if it continues to allow Christian laden invocations to lead its supposed secular meetings.

Members of Atheists United of San Luis Obispo have repeatedly asked the Pismo Beach City Council to stop allowing openly Christian invocations at its meetings. They note that while invocations at public meetings can refer to a God, they are not permitted to include explicit references to any religion including Christianity.

However, Dr. Paul Jones, who regularly gives the city council’s invocations, has made references to “the baby that was born so long ago in Bethlehem’s manger” and calls upon “Christ our Lord.”

Jones has also stated in several of his invocations that civic order is dependent on religious faith.

In a May 15 letter to the council, local atheists argue that the invocations are not only “inherently dismissive of non-religious persons,” but also violate the law.

“Atheists United of San Luis Obispo remains hopeful that an acceptable resolution can be reached with the city of Pismo Beach, but is considering further action should the city continue to be unresponsive,” the group said today in a press release.


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justme

I’ll say one thing, religion continues to be as much a divisive issue as it is one that brings folks together.

Let’s enjoy the 4th and cool down.

One thing is for sure, kids, we all are lucky dogs to live around SLO county because one thing we can ALL agree on I hope is that “God” is nature if it is anything and we got a ton of it here. Enjoy it!!


Ted Slanders

Justme,


Granted, we live in a beautiful area. But, certainly you realize that to the true Christian, our God is not nature in any way or form, therefore, the term “if anything” just doesn’t cut it and is a blatant slap to our God’s face. Our Christian God created nature that you speak of, and we’re just the caretakers.


As our bible states, we Christians are brought together as the only ones that are worthy, and our Christian faith trumsp any other religion. Why? Because our bible says so.


justme

You’ll figure it out someday


Ted Slanders

justme,


The Judeo-Christian bible has already allowed me to figure it out in an absolute sense. Hopefully someday before your demise, you’ll know what I know, therefore figuring it out before it’s too late.


justme

You have a “Christ Complex” I saw burnt hippies with it in the 60’s. NEWSFLASH ! You ain’t him but don’t feel bad cuz he never existed anyway.


Ted Slanders

Justme,


Yes, there is absolutely no historical written evidence of our Jesus the Christ within His lifetime, other than the spurious interpolated mentioning of Him by Josephus Flavius! Shhhhhhh, okay?


Yes, His historical non-existence is an embarrassing FACT that we Christians want to keep under the radar. Got it? Jesus only exists within our bible and within writings from 40 to 325 years subsequent to His alleged existence. Jesus is what we want Him to be in our minds, as the other peoples of the biblical era wanted their Saviors and God’s to be!


This is why we true Christians rely upon the “faith card”, in that He existed as the bible so depicts. Therefore, ‘faith” is the only way we can say that Jesus existed, period. It’s like you have faith that your car will start in the morning, get it?


Be very quiet on this topic. Mum is the word! Thanks.


MaryMalone

There you are, Ted! Just the guy I was looking for.


What ever happened to the Mathew 6-6 “pray-in-a-closet” admonition?


To paraphrase another quote, “I don’t care what they do, just as long as they don’t do it in the road and frighten the horses.”


Ted Slanders

Mary Malone,


Dear, like I said, I fully addressed this topic with godly specificity just below. I am sorry that you didn’t read it for your future enlightenment. Jesus has sent me here for a reason, and I have my work cut out for me as you can plainly see.


It’s hard being a TRUE Christian amongst the pseudo Burger King Christian crowd, where they want their bible “their way”. But, Jesus and I shall prevail in showing them that they’ll have to learn it in our Christian God’s way!


MaryMalone

Ted, I voted you a “thumbs up,” but it was for your great example of circular reasoning.


Over and out.


shelworth

Dear God in Heaven, I pray to thee, please protect me from thy followers…


Citizen

Simple enough. Tell Dr. Jones to tone down his invocations, so the town doesn’t have to deal with those slimy toad atheists from San Luis Obispo.


Ted Slanders

Citizen,


Tone it down? Remove it altogether! Can’t you read what the Christian God proposed below in how wrong Dr. Paul Jones is regarding his prayer at the beginning of the Council meeting? You’re obviously not a Christian, otherwise, you would actually follow the bible passages regarding prayer that I’ve shown below.


This is the problem of this forum. Too many pseudo-christians that are trying in vain to be actual Christians, but when doing so, they turn themselves into outright hypocrites. Citizen, you’re a prime example of this simple premise.


Citizen

Ted (literal Bible follower) Koresh,


What do you say about the Seven Seals?


MaryMalone

The “slimy toad” is the Christian zealot who is trying to pimp his god using public funds.


If he doesn’t have a better venue to preach than unconstitutionally banging on government meetings, then perhaps he’s not cut out to be a preacher.


Ted Slanders

Mary Malone,


Uh, was your use of the term “banging” a Freudian Slip, dear? It is not unconstitutional to have sex, but it is unlawful and immoral to engage in any type of sex at a public meeting.


Oh my, I will pray for you tonight.


MaryMalone

I seldom use Frieudian slips. Freudian underdrawers are to die for, however.


(No, it was intended.)


Ted Slanders

.

I have run across several ungodly tax paying citizens of the Santeria faith in Pismo Beach. Since we’re a country of religious freedom, and within the same vein as Dr. Paul Jones’ invocational prayers to start the Pismo Beach Council meetings, then the Santeria faith should also be represented. If they’re not, then let the lawsuits line up with other religious faiths as well like Islam, and the Hebrew faith to name a few!


The Santeria faith follows Orisha, a spirit, and will offer this spirit food in the way of sacrificing animals to it in order to build and maintain a personal relationship with the spirit.


Their bloody and horrific live animal screaming sacrifices are performed for life events, such as the beginning of a Pismo Beach Council meeting! Now, if the Pismo Beach Council is going to allow one religious belief like Christianity to start their proceedings, then they’re going to have to let the Santeria faith take turns as well! Get it? Anyone? Do you see the can of worms that can be opened when on faith tries to steal the show? Understand? Yes?


Does the Department of Justice pertaining to religious freedom and the First Ammendment come to mind? Sure it does.


Let the sacrifices begin, and let the city council clean up the remains in the aftermath!


Slowerfaster

All Praise Brother T !


Now, imagine the opening invocations as practiced by one of our nominally Christian group of ‘believers’: those of Pentecostal Holiness…often called the Church Of God With Signs Following that dances with deadly snakes and drink poison. These acts they do, as detailed in Mark 1614-20 particularly vs. 17 +18.


Now, some of our supposed brethren do not so passionately ‘believe’, but rather take these as suggestions only.

It sure would be entertaining.


( BTW, I give myself a pass on this, as I did step on a rattlesnake once and nothing happened . )


MaryMalone

I’ve done so many screw-ball things in my life….


I actually tried to talk my captain into allowing me to take a bus to a Santeria worship in middle-of-nowhere rural Panama shouldn’t be surprising.


Have you ever actually been to a Santeria worship?


Ted Slanders

.

“Jones has also stated in several of his invocations that civic order is dependent on religious faith.”


Well, if Mr. Jones thinks that killing your parents, siblings, and friends because they have a different religion and God than we do is civil order, then he is misleading the Christian God’s creation! Our bible is all about revenge for those that don’t believe in what we do, period!


Our Judeo-Christian bible teaches us the following, to wit: “If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. YOU MUST CERTAINLY PUT HIM TO DEATH. YOUR HAND MUST BE THE FIRST IN PUTTING THEM TO DEATH, AND THEN THE HANDS OF ALL PEOPLE. STONE THEM TO DEATH, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)


Before you pseudo-christians start falling all over yourselves and turning into pretzels to try in vain to spin doctor this passage away, or to find your Satanic decoder rings, always remember the following godly stated words!


“Thou shalt have no other God’s before me, I am a jealous God”. (Exodus 20:3) The 1st Commandment is directly relative to Deut 13:6-10 and the subsequent actions to be taken by true Christian if it is not followed.


As any true Christian knows, Jesus did NOT come to destroy the Mosaic Laws, of which in part is the 1st Commandment and the Deut 13: 6-10 passage above, but to fulfill them (Matthew 5:17). Therefore, we’re still under the horrific actions that we’re to follow in Deuteronomy 13: 6-10!


Besides, we’re told the following; “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” ( Proverbs 30:5-6 ) Key words: “EVERY word of God is pure….”, therefore, does any pseudo-christian want to argue with the direct inspired word of our God in Deut 13:5-6? Do you know more than our God if you do? No, I didn’t think so.


You pseudo-christians, like Dr. Jones, make Jesus and I laugh with your unadulterated biblical ignorance!


All pseudo-christians, click on the “dislike button” below to show us that you disagree with our Christian God’s direct words shown above. Thank you for your participation.


Ted Slanders

What the hell is going on with all of these sophomoric responses from the cultural-pseudo-christian element that upholds what Dr. Paul Jones is doing at the Pismo Beach council meetings? Jesus and I have had about enough of your biblical ignorance!!!


First off, this minion of Satan, Dr. Paul Jones, who gives prayer invocations at the Pismo Beach City Council meetings, is going straight to hell upon his timely demise. He is not following our Christian God’s words relative to how one is to pray. Prayer is NOT to be done in public as he is doing, but privately behind closed doors.


“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. (Matthew 6:5-6)


Just like our ever-loving Jesus stated in Luke 12:47, that it was okay to beat the slaves with stripes because of their insolence to God’s word, then I am sure that if Jesus presented himself at the Pismo Beach Council meeting one night, He would permit the same action to be done to this Satanic Dr. Jones for going against the direct teachings in our bible on how the TRUE Christian is to pray!


Such insolence to our Christian God will not permitted when Brother Ted is present. Remember this godly fact, and you multitude of pseudo-christians will save any further embarrassment from my patent pending Jesus Slap Downs!


Now, all pseudo-christians that don’t believe in the direct words of our Christian God shown above, mark your votes and push the “dislike” button below. In this way, we’ll count up all of the pseudo-christians that seemingly know more than our God! LOL!


SpeakTruth

“I have to say, as someone who is not a Christian, it’s hard for me to believe that Christians are a persecuted people in America. God-willing, maybe one of you one day will even rise up and get to be president of this county–or maybe forty-four in a row. But that’s my point, is they’ve taken this idea of no establishment as persecution, because they feel entitled, not to equal status, but to greater status.”

-Jon Stewart


Cicero

Oh my goodness. Some people have so little to complain about that they have to focus on something that is intended to uplift others just so they can find fault in something.


There are poor and hungry who need feeding; there are kids and adults who need to be educated; there are sick who need care; there are corrupt business and political actions to be stopped; and so much more. Why anyone would think a City Council choosing to have someone pray for them, in whatever way the City Council chooses, rises to the level of real, palpable, significant evil that actually deserves our energies to prevent is beyond me. The motivation is that an invocation is an easy target, and by bringing the complaint the complainers give themselves the pretense of importance and accomplishment when they have done nothing to make either the secular or philosophical world a better place.


abigchocoholic

Why anyone would think a City Council choosing to have someone pray for them, in whatever way the City Council chooses, rises to the level of real, palpable, significant evil that actually deserves our energies to prevent is beyond me.

———————-

Easy answer. Because it’s a blatant violation of the law. And it’s a law that’s central to our way of life–separation of church and state goes all the way back to our beginning and it’s almost as important today as it was then. If you don’t think so, I suggest you first take an American history class and then a western history class and then a middle east history class and then finish it off with a class on the history of Christianity. I’m betting after a little education, you’ll see the importance of keeping the ignorant and superstitious Christian views out of government.


mrcyberdoc

” Because it’s a blatant violation of the law”…. BUT does NOT break the law of the Constitution of the United States!


helfk

But it is in the Constitution of the United States. 1st Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion”. It’s right there in the constitution- no governmental body can enforce a specific religion on everyone else. Even if it hadn’t been, it’s just a good common-sense rule of thumb if you want to live in a free country. By all means, if you do not, move to Iran or somewhere else with a State Religion. But here, we all pay taxes, & we all get to have our public spaces religion-free.


mrcyberdoc

So look into it a little deeper and understand the words you wrote above. By professing Christ in a prayer at a city council, this in no way “establishes” a religion embraced by any level of government anymore than praying in the name of Allah or Buddah. The separation of church and state was taken not from the constitution but in a letter written by President Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut. You stated it above but didn’t finish the sentence where he also wrote: “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. Professing the name of the god you believe in at a public meeting is no more than exercising your right. Does not the athiest “prohibit the free exercise thereof”?


thinkaboutit

Agree, mrcyberdoc.


In addition, I find it ironic that some constituents utter gushing, public support of certain politicians to the level of worshipful adoration…as if they were free from human imperfection.


We’ll surely see even more of this on every side as we get closer to November. Funny-odd, though, how free exercise to publicly chant about their favorites during campaign season is completely expected (i.e. People worship is apparently okay, but worship of Christ? Oh, no!)


I doubt there will be any debating of that in the Supreme Court, right?


abigchocoholic

“BUT does NOT break the law of the Constitution of the United States!”

————-

Your Supreme Court disagrees. And which view do you think carries more weight on the subject of the intepretation of the Constitution, yours or the Supreme Court of the United States?


mrcyberdoc

Well considering in most instances the supreme court votes only in the “majority”, not unamously, (they have justices write majority opinions and minitority opions) leads me to believe that the constitution is interpreted by man and that their decisions are as much an “opinion” as true interpretation. In fact, look on the supreme court page. They call their rulings “opinions”. Wikipedia defines opinion as “In general, an opinion is a subjective belief, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts” Notice the word interpretation. If our forefathers could only speak they might tell the supreme court that many of their decisions were faulty in light of their “interpretation” of the constitution. Or in plain vernacular they might say, ye gads guys, that isn’t what we ment at all when we wrote the constitution.


abigchocoholic

If our forefathers could only speak they might tell the supreme court that many of their decisions were faulty in light of their “interpretation” of the constitution.

—————–

And if a pig could fly, right? But it can’t. And the Supreme Court acts as the top of a branch of your government and only as a group— and as a group at the top of a branch of your government it has ruled on your issue–against you. You lost. Do you understand that? You lost. Game over. Lights out. Door of the stadium locked. A long time ago.


So get over yourself.


mrcyberdoc

And I say to you nothing is final other than death and taxes. There has been many times the Supreme Court has “reversed” their own decisions. Lookie here…

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_the_US_Supreme_Court_reverse_its_own_decisions So the door is closed, but not locked and the game is far from over.


justme