Californians can seek gun restraining-orders

October 1, 2014

gunsCalifornia Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill into law Tuesday that will allow family members to seek court orders temporarily prohibiting their relatives from possessing firearms. [Sacramento Bee]

Democratic Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner authored the bill in response to a deadly shooting in Isla Vista in May. The new law will allow family members of individuals displaying signs of mental illness to request a court order temporarily barring the relatives from purchasing or using a gun.

Brown also signed a bill authored by Democratic State Senator Kevin de Leon, which will require toy guns to be brightly colored. The bill emerged in response to incidents in the state in which police officers shot young Californians carrying replica guns.

The governor did, though, veto one gun bill, which would have required Californians to register firearms they make themselves. Concerns about the availability of homemade guns, including ones produced by 3-D printers, prompted the introduction of the bill.


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choprzrul

Don’t let this worry you folks. It is very easily attacked on Due Process grounds and will be found to be unconstitutional before it goes into effect. Brown knew this when he signed it. He just needed something that he could point at for the anti Civil Rights crowd……he just wanted the votes….ponder the anti 2A bills that he vetoed…


Nothing to see here.


cosmos7

I don’t think you realize how long this is going to be on the books though… it’s takes years to challenge this crap.


choprzrul

Kinda like AB962? Oh, wait, AB962 went through the courts so fast that it never had a chance to go into effect (Feb 1, 2011 I believe).


SLO_Johnny

In most cases, the people will get their guns back, but by then they will probably be really pissed off. I’m not sure how many people will really use this law unless the police encourage them, or pressure them, to do so.


Slowerfaster

So, by your calculation…Are unstable people with possible criminal intent NOT pissed off before they contemplate and/or commit acts of violence ?


What’s your solution ?


OnTheOtherHand

I wouldn’t bet on that.


Many years ago, my place was burglarized by my next door neighbor’s friend when neither of us were home. He was caught (kudos to the SLO Sheriffs Dept. in So. County) but the stuff he stole was held as evidence until he pleaded out. Even then, they wouldn’t give me back the cheap .22 rifle he took until I could prove it was mine and legally obtained. I had bought it in another state well before moving to CA and didn’t have the receipt any longer. My only proof was that I reported it as a missing item from the burglary before they found it and that wasn’t enough.


I might have been able to get it back with a lawyer to make my case but I couldn’t even get a consultation with one for what the gun cost. I wrote it off but I haven’t forgotten the lesson.


shelworth

So if I want to kill my Uncle Joe all I have to do is tell the police I’m afraid of him and they will confiscate all his guns? Cool. Thanks Jerry!


Slowerfaster

Why do you want to kill your Uncle Joe ?


toryrand

why do you want to know? do you want to kill your uncle and compare notes?


Slowerfaster

shelworth said it, not me.


I’ve loved ALL of my uncles and aunts., but that’s a strawman.

shelworth expressed a sentiment to kill his uncle, not me.

Why did you choose a username “toryrand” ?


Are you a ‘toryist’ , and therefore a TRAITOR to America ?

Or are you a Randian, and therefore a TRAITOR to civilization ?


A Hobson’s Choice, but it’s your preference.


Good luck !


roberttorrance

mad at anyone or want to get even? the liberal police force and court system is now your henchman…….


zaphod

telling lies to the authorities can land you in jail


cosmos7

Except there are zero penalties put in place as part of this bill to dissuade false reporting. So you can cause someone extreme hassle and cost them a ton of money with nothing more than a simple declaration.


choprzrul

I believe that the bill outlines false reporting as a misdemeanor…


Put your firearms in an irrevocable trust, then sue the crap out of the law enforcement agency that wrongfully seizes firearms owned by said trust…


cosmos7

My mistake, you are correct… that was not in previous versions of the bill. However proving that someone knowingly falsified a report is often extremely difficult.


choprzrul

You are correct…..very difficult to prove.


Slowerfaster

People that have criminal intent in their ( non-existant ) heart, or their warped psyche ; have no problem telling lies to anyone, at anytime.


They are sociopaths…but I’m pretty sure that you know that already.


BUT, that brings me to question…. why …WHY is this a website that so obviously attracts these types ?

I realize that it is a rather fatuous wonder; because there are so many really, really stupid dolts around us that swarm like uneducated cockroaches.

I still would appreciate your synopsis.


Thanks !


zaphod

stupid and mean is the new black


Slowerfaster

I agree, but it’s the same old.

Ignorant reprobate bullies replete among the lesser species.

Chimpanzees.

Baboons.

Hyenas.


These are the hominids we are dealing with. Brutes. Animal force.

Abject subjection.

But with the subtext of implied intelligence…sometimes real.

Genius, but evil.

Those are the ‘conservative’ enemies of civilization that we are dealing with now; and most of comfortable, advanced , educated. ‘Civilized’ members of the state and community are oblivious and/or narcotized.


Stupid and mean can be a trope.

Or it can become a movement.

Perhaps this is a minor jeremiad, but it happened in Germany. Not that long ago.

Not going Godwin, but there are enough stupid people here in the USA to make it thinkable.. 300 million of them at minimum.


You have evidence here just in the comments.


zaphod

the man who speaks the truth is chased from nine villages.


Slowerfaster

Liberal police force and court system ?

WHAT bizarro world do you live in ?


It’s a WHITE, entitled, Jim Crow, Racist system that exists now …and has existed since before , during, and after the Civil War !

It has been systematic GENOCIDE, with plantationistic slavery in the good ole southland, the ‘Trail of Tears’, and Wars against the weaker in the last 60 years for this empire of conceited self destiny.


I’ve no doubt that the revisionist FIVE so-called ‘conservatives’ on the Supreme Court will continue in this realm and be satisfactory to you.


We ‘liberals’, ‘progressives’, ‘socialists’, ‘modernists’,, ‘intellectuals’, whatever you want to label us as, will endure…and suffer, and endure some more; until we have had enough.


And THEN…then, we fight back, and then the reactionaries cannot beat us.


Gandhi had it. Mandela had it. Jesus of Nazareth had it.

WE have it !


You don’t.


OnTheOtherHand

The US Supreme Court is generally conservative at this time. The California courts — state and federal — are generally liberal. But the labels don’t really matter because all of them seem to be very much “pro-establishment” and that seems to mostly reflect an increasing shift of power to higher levels of government no matter which major party is in control.


The police generally follow orders no matter who is in power. When both parties are largely controlled by major corporate interests — although one of them publicly pretends otherwise — the cops will do what it takes to keep their support. This includes suppression of radical liberals (protests at political conventions, economic summits, OWS) when the Democrats are in power as well as the Republicans.


This is just another instance of people who are not in favor of those current political trends speaking out against one of them. Depending upon how one defines liberal or conservative, I am probably a mix of the two. But distrust of big government whether run by Dems or Reps is a major element of my political beliefs.


I get that you don’t agree at this time and maybe you never will. But if you don’t have any understanding or respect for those of us who think this way, your “victory” will take a lot longer than you think and may never come in the form you want. You may not see the latent fascism in those you support but that doesn’t mean its not there.


JamesD

Knives don’t forget the knives. Nancy Skinner authored a bill in response to a deadly

shooting in Isla Vista in May. How many were killed with a knife vs a gun. Take someone’s

guns and get them really pissed off and let’s what kind of mayhem they commit with

a number of other kinds of weapons.


Slowerfaster

Domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh killed 163 innocent people ( including small children in a day-care ) using an improvised b O m .

He was caught during a routine traffic stop because he was in possession of an unlawful gun.


zaphod

high capacity magazine speed loading kill rate


SamLouis

A parent of the Isla Vista killer contacted law enforcement and requested that their son be contacted by law enforcement for a welfare check.


Deputies from the SB Sheriff’s Department (an agency not known to be aggressive) made contact with the killer. Sadly they didn’t dig very deeply and they found no reason to take any action.


Had they wanted to take action they could have initiated a 72 hour hold where the killer would have been evaluated by a psychiatrist and a judge with celerity. Now the state wants to cut out that process (even though the person is already in custody)? Utter nonsense.


This law will be inoperable by Christmas.


mkaney

Here is a perfect example of where even subtle prejudice effects people’s behavior even when they do not perceive themselves as being prejudiced/racist/whatever. This guy was part of the dominant population group… in other words he was white, and new the “code” (proper language) to use to express his position in society and membership in a socioeconomic group which is not looked upon suspiciously. Therefore he got the “wave-thru” when it came to this critical moment. Had one thing been out of place…. messy house, different race, improper vernacular, uncontrolled mannerisms, etc.. I bet you that there would have been a different outcome from that welfare check.


This is why the perception is created, for example, that certain races are more or less likely to commit crimes, and they MAY BE, but precisely because of events that result from being more prone to be suspected and convicted. (e.g. the child of a someone who was pulled over by a prejudiced officer and then found to be in possession of a substance which winds them up in jail for years so they can’t raise their child).


This whole terrible self-fulfilling prophecy situation is an indirect result of law enforcement not being focused on pursuing crimes which have a victim who has presented a complaint, but being out there roaming around looking for people who might be committing a crime that may or may not actually even have a *direct* victim. (e.g. many drug related crimes)


Slowerfaster

Are you taking a side ?


If so, what side ?


toryrand

in the middle?


Slowerfaster

Those in the middle of the road get run over.


OnTheOtherHand

Your allegory is a lame and inappropriate one unless you think that only extremism is a rational point of view.


Slowerfaster

Extremists invariably argue that point.


Take a side. Either the brutalists or the smart people.

Be a coward and live…for a time, or be brave and oppose the oppressors.


Your choice.


mkaney

On this one, your side. All the tools necessary to deal with that Isla Vista shooter were available. We don’t need more laws, we need more competence.


zaphod

this law expands the rights and responsibilities of citizens


choprzrul

Where in this law does it provide for Due Process before separating a law abiding citizen from their ability to exercise their Civil Rights?


SamLouis

What a hideous and ludicrous law. Nothing like cutting due process out of stealing someone’s firearms. And “they don’t want to ban firearms”, right? Utter bull manure.


This law will obviously be ruled unconstitutional by the courts but until it does, beware.


Slowerfaster

Are you REALLY that scared of your relatives ?


cosmos7

Disgruntled spouse in the midst of an ugly divorce? Angsty child angry at his or her parents? Spat with the inlaws? There are so many ways this law is going to be easily misused with zero consequence for those who make false declarations.


Slowerfaster

MAN, I pity you…with the psychotic ex, the uncontrollable kids, the insufferable in-laws.


No wonder you’re a basket case.


Just relocate to Pakistan or Burkino Faso and live the GOOD LIFE.

Maybe the Falklands.

I would have suggested Scotland had they separated from Great Britain, but since no, they still may be too oppressive for your sensitivities.


GOOD LUCK !


OnTheOtherHand

If you think that any one of the scenarios he presented are uncommon you are out of touch with reality and likely quite lucky in your personal life as well. It also doesn’t take someone “psychotic” to do something like that — just someone who is very angry and maybe even with a “spur-of-the-moment” anger.


I was thinking of giving my otherwise very agreeable and intelligent brother power of attorney when revising my legal papers for situations where I may be unable to make decisions myself. However, this law combined with his strong anti-gun sentiments, is going to force me to reconsider that. It is not that I think that I should have access to my firearms if I somehow lost my sanity. It is that I don’t want them going to the government under any circumstance but particularly if the possibility of regaining sanity existed.


Slowerfaster

I am hoping that you regain your sanity; but in the interim, please convey effective power of attorney to your more intelligent and agreeable brother.


Thank you my friend !


SamLouis

It’s not limited to “relatives” you limited individual.


Myself

Wake up people,the rumble of the jack boots is here.


zaphod

“Jack booted thugs” was George Herbert Walker Bush’s original meme!

remember him? he’s the New World Order guy!


Slowerfaster

So tell me ( and others )…

Why do so many indiscriminate mass murderers that use high-powered firearms in their acts of crime dress up in jack boots, camo fatigues, and imagined ninja garb ?


choprzrul

High powered??? A .223 isn’t even legal to hunt deer with in a lot of states…..and you call it ‘high-powered’???


Slowerfaster

Do you consider humans the equivalent of deer ?


OnTheOtherHand

Amazing isn’t it how media can distort someone’s perception of reality. “. . . so many indiscriminate mass murderers?” Unless you consider police or military to be mass murderers, I would say that relatively few dress up that way. (And there are RELATIVELY few of them to start with — despite the media messages to the contrary.) In any event the few who do so are probably wannabe “Special Forces” or “Swat Team” types who copy the style from the entertainment world. What was your point anyway?


Slowerfaster

So, what’s your point ?

Columbine ?

Virginia Tech ?

Gabby Giffords ?

The Denver Joker ?


Enough to indict. More examples, I am sure.


Nuts will be nuts.

Gun nuts are more nuts…dangerous lunatics to be abstracted…DELETED from normal society.


They’re KILLERS.


You and the gun lobby CHOOSE to be on the murderers side.


I DO NOT !


OnTheOtherHand

The incidents you point out are scattered over 15 years . . . in a country with 300 million people. (And not all of them involved dressing up “in jack boots, camo fatigues, and imagined ninja garb” as your inflammatory rhetoric implies.) Yes, they are tragic and no one wants to see them repeated.


However, if the price for a solution to an incident like these includes dis- enabling the vast majority of sane citizens from access to a tool for self-defense, the price is too high and perhaps better solutions can be found. Even the high financial cost of dealing with mental illness.


Finally, a well-armed citizenry is a deterrent to government oppression. The mere presence of that many people — many with military training — forces the plutocrats to go very slowly and subtly to institute their Big Brother dreams — insurrection and guerrilla warfare are not compatible with economic profits even if they are likely to win in the end. Hopefully, citizens will be able to stall and maybe even reverse these trends without resorting to armed opposition.


You have obviously bought into a political faith in the liberal agenda with the Democrat Party as its agent. I may agree with some of that agenda but I strongly distrust the Democrats (particularly the leadership) to actually carry through with those items (as opposed to using verbal support for them to get the votes of gullible voters.) And no, the GOP is no better although they use different tactics to deceive their support base.


Rich in MB

Great Start.

Now we need a similar law for the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Amendments.


Mike

One small step at a time and before we know it all of our rights will be gone. Part of the plan.


zaphod

the plan! the paranoid style!


SamLouis

Ohhhhh, so “paranoid” is the ad hom used to justify this hideous new law? Really?


Slowerfaster

@ Rich in MB:


Too late …………….It’s called the conservative ( i.e. Republican ) five-member Supreme Court majority.


zaphod

no one expects the congregation of the faithful!


Slowerfaster

Oh…maybe the abatoir’s that count their blessings in blood.


Nothing like the stupid to keep the money flowing !