Synthetic marijuana blamed in deadly Cayucos crash

October 27, 2014

spiceThe grandmother of the toddler killed in a fatal accident Saturday on Highway 1 in Cayucos said the adults in the vehicle were addicted to spice, a synthetic marijuana. [KSBY]

Two children are dead, two adults are hospitalized with major injuries and a Morro Bay man is in jail after the alleged felony DUI accident. Three passengers, 22-month-old Mason Gibson from Los Osos, 17-year-old Simon Brito of Morro Bay and Wendi Brito, 19, from Morro Bay, were thrown from the truck. Both boys were pronounced dead at Sierra Vista Regional Medical Center.

Wendi Brito, 19, who was babysitting the toddler for her sister, is in critical condition. Her brother Michael Brito is in fair condition. Only the driver was wearing a seat belt and the toddler was not in a car seat.

Aside from the toddler, the four people in the vehicle had driven to a new smoke shop in Cambria to purchase spice. Though legal to smoke, it is not legal to drive while impaired.

The driver, Tanner Mengore, 22, allegedly smoked spice before the accident. He was arrested on suspicion of felony DUI and manslaughter.

Spice, sometimes sold as incense, is popular among teens. It is cheap, looks like marijuana, but can be deadly, according to the Washington Post.


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topper01

Why is it that proponents of marijuana use compare it to alcohol? The only thing they have in common is that they are both a drug that alters your state of awareness. Let’s compare it with heroin or how about LSD? Both have at least one similar clinical effect on the human body.

If your argument is that marijuana is not as bad as alcohol, I say fair enough (even though I disagree). Two wrongs don’t make a right.


SamLouis

No kidding! Those pushing for legalizing weed under the guise of “it’s less harmful than alcohol” are full of it. So what if it’s less harmful than alcohol (which is debatable)? Alcohol can be a devastatingly destructive drug and the comparison in no way mitigates the dangers of marijuana. I’m also sure that smoking weed is less destructive than downing a shot of mercury or molten lead, but who in their right minds cares?


A more honest argument is: “Dopeheads are going to smoke weed no matter what. No silly “war on drugs” is going to stop them. All it’s going to do is fuel cartels/gangs, facilitate getting people killed and fill prisons. We really have no choice but to legalize marijuana.”


slophocles

This is horrible. I remember these kids from when they worked at McDonald’s and Burger King. They were all very tight and all very nice, even Tanner. I think this might be the second child tragedy for the mother of the toddler. Too bad this is turning into a discussion about marijuana. Anything that impairs your judgment impairs your driving. What’s the argument?


Ishmael09p

“Bath Salts” is crystilline in form and is intended to mimic the effect of methamphetamine. It is created to be close to methamphetamine in chemical composition, but elementally different enough to be legal.

“Spice” is dried plant material (usually Damiana or one of the Salvias) sprayed with additional chemicals (even formaldehyde) and is intended to mimic marijuana. Nobody tests these herbs and chemicals to see what they do to people when smoked — they don’t have to because they label it “incense.”

Neither is cannabis. Both are chemical, not herbal.

Marijuana has no place in this discussion.


Ishmael09p

And please, before you start calling me “oddly well informed on the subject” and thereby a pothead, how about googling it and wasting 12 minutes to become oddly well informed yourself.


ml1999

The article said: “said the adults in the vehicle were addicted to spice, a synthetic marijuana.”


“Spice, sometimes sold as incense, is popular among teens. It is cheap, looks like marijuana, but can be deadly, according to the Washington Post.”


SamLouis

It’s interesting how quickly the pro-marijuana camp gets their knickers in a twist when others point out that smoking weed is far from a harmless activity. Marijuana smoke IS carcinogenic. The effects of THC DO impact one’s ability to drive a vehicle or operate other equipment, etc. The use of marijuana CAN be addictive, if not physically then psychologically. That’s the facts, go look it up.


Their ultimate argument is that “it’s not as bad a booze” (as if anyone made the claim that booze is harmless.)


Stel1776

This is an article on synthetic “marijuana” which is nothing like natural cannabis. The claim “it’s not as bad a booze” does not imply harmless, it implies that is it less harmful than booze, which is accurate.


:::”Marijuana smoke IS carcinogenic.”


Recent large scale studies have shown that serious adverse effects on the lung are unlikely, except possibly in the very heaviest of smokers (data is lacking since so few use these amounts). A 2013 review by one of the world’s leading experts on cannabis and its effects on the lung concluded that tobacco is FAR more harmful:


“On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance.”

“findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use.”

“In summary, the accumulated weight of evidence implies far lower risks for pulmonary complications of even regular heavy use of marijuana compared with the grave pulmonary consequences of tobacco.”

Tashkin DP. Effects of marijuana smoking on the lung. Ann Am Thorac Soc. 2013. Review.


A recent study published in The Journal of the American Medical Association also found little evidence of adverse pulmonary function:


“With up to 7 joint-years of lifetime exposure (e.g., 1 joint/day for 7 years or 1 joint/week for 49 years), we found no evidence that increasing exposure to marijuana adversely affects pulmonary function”

Pletcher et al. Association between marijuana exposure and pulmonary function over 20 years. JAMA. 2012.


Regardless, even if smoking cannabis did increase the risk of lung cancer or lung disease, this would not be a valid reason to criminalize millions of Americans for using it. Also, there are many peer-reviewed studies showing that the cannabinoids contained in cannabis, especially THC and CBD, directly fight tumors both by reducing their ability to spread and by shrinking them. Considering this, it is very plausible that increased cannabis use will not lead to significantly increased cancer incidence and may even reduce it.


SamLouis

Weed smoke is carcinogenic. Smoking dope can lead to cancer. It’s at least the same risk as tobacco. The difference is far, far more people inhale tobacco smoke and weed smoke.


You’re an absolute fool if you think you can inhale ANY smoke from ANY combustion on a regular basis and not increase your risk of developing cancer.


Just watch the cancer rates of “weed-only” smokers rise as its use becomes more common.


Perspicacious

I agree. I have never heard someone say that booze is harmless. Booze has ruined more lives than ALL other drugs put together. It is just that marijuana is one more addition to the mess.


BeenThereDoneThat

I don’t think it’s a case of people claiming people that have said booze isn’t harmless. It is more likely assumed that is the attitude in the way that the laws are written and booze is legal and pot isn’t, yet they both have about the same effects.


PurpleTantrum

The fact that booze is by far more dangerous, deadly, and an instigator of violence and the spread of STD’s is a relevant argument for only ONE aspect of the debate. That is not the entire debate. The point is being made that marijuana is being kept illegal with very little evidence to support doing so, while alcohol, with all of the damage caused in so many areas of society, is kept legal. The very basis for keeping marijuana as an illegal drug is for a tiny fraction of the enormous problem that alcohol IS. And no, it does not mean legalizing marijuana is like telling people they should do it because it’s better than swallowing mercury. Mercury is even farther up the scale of nonsense analogies than is even worth discussion, but for those who somehow think it needs explaining: golf is a much safer sport than football. People don’t die playing golf. Then you say well if you’re going to base the safety of golf on football, you might as well just have people play Russian Roulette. See the absurdity in an extreme analogy that has no parallel?


indigo1955

I have studied drug abuse at the graduate level and I can tell you this: it is a difficult course due to the many illegal drugs and the ways (and routes) they are used (plus clearance rates, titer levels, etc). Spice is NOTHING like marijuana. As timing is sometimes horrible-it was during the period of time I was taking the class, that I was heartbroken to learn a friend of mine in Southern California lost her son to this drug–who was a pro-football hopeful, young and healthy- and took ONE HIT of it. He went into a coma and never came out of it. They donated his organs, so my friend has some family photos showing the agony and goodbye of the family at the end. Does the regular marijuana plant do this? No, and you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who has ever died from it. So then, what is this crap that they sell over the counter that is reputed to be some form of marijuana-and is legal and in snappy packaging? Look it up (a simple wiki view is enough): the names of the drugs tossed on to mace, pepper or spices vary and can be instantly lethal. You might pause and wonder WHY would they not let a non-harmful (and potentially beneficial if you ask some cancer patients and children with seizures) be legal…..but they would let THIS be!? This accident is only the tip of the iceberg and it gives the regular plant a horrid image that is entirely undeserved. We need to face the fact addiction is biologically genetic and people ARE going to get high. It is up to voters to participate in what is relatively safe-and what is not. If you consider alcohol a lot safer…..think again. One out of 10 deaths is related to alcohol in some way. Marijuana has a much safer track record. I know no one who ever died from one hit of it–ever.


ml1999

Why do I get the feeling that someone is trying to sell us something? A growing body of clinical data is proving that marijuana is quite harmful, specifically to teenagers and young adults.


The first study I saw said that regular marijuana use could reduce the IQ of a teenager by up to ten percent! And we all know that pot use causes short-term memory loss, and like cigarettes, regular pot use can eventually lead to increased rates of cancer. Sure, many people smoke less pot than cigarettes, but pot is stronger, unregulated, and some methods of delivery don’t have a filter, so take your guess.


Teenage use of marijuana has also been proven to lead to increased incidents of psychotic episodes.


Lastly, a recent study published in The Journal of Neuroscience.from researchers at Northwestern University and Massachusetts General Hospital / Harvard Medical School used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to compare the brains of 18- to 25-year olds who reported smoking marijuana at least once per week with those with little to no history of marijuana use. These studies revealed that even casual use can harm the teenage brain in two areas. This is a very recent study (this year), which I bet will spur many more studies.


“The nucleus accumbens — a brain region known to be involved in reward processing — was larger and altered in its shape and structure in the marijuana users compared to non-users.”


If an adult wants to enjoy this drug, have at it. But I think it sends a dangerous message to tell young people that marijuana use is harmless. Readers are welcome to google any of the items I typed to do their own discovery / research.


indigo1955

Yeah, I think you are right. You know, according to high school educational films you can also turn into a werewolf after just one or two hits.


ml1999

Nice attempt at deflection. Northwestern and Harvard Medical School are some pretty serious names.


But now we know why Asian-American students are kicking butt in colleges and will be over half of our doctors and dentists: clear minds and Tiger Moms!


indigo1955

Life is not all about achieving-tiger kicking butt-molding yourself to the system-gathering and hoarding money and all-pervasive respect for the big names within the system. Life is about pleasure too. Life is about letting your hair down and breathing a sigh….just noticing the breeze.


Life is about love, listening to music—enjoying a little wine–or a puff or two if you prefer. It is about gardening and enjoying the earth and loving children for their innocence and laughter…feeling the sun on your skin.


Asian-Americans can kick butt in college all they want. I had a perfect 4.0 GPA in college. But I do not worship this false paradigm of a system. I live to enjoy the sensual and enjoyable pleasures around me. Life can be so rich. It does not have to involve a pervasively anal approach.


ml1999

I am not against a glass or two of wine, or any other beverage of choice. And if 40-year-old Joe Smith wants to light up a big fattie on his birthday or every weekend, it’s none of my business.


I do take issue with spreading the false narrative that marijuana is “harmless” or even beneficial for most, especially when we have a growing body of evidence of the disastrous consequences for teenagers and young adults.


I am not anal, and I know this gets pretty complex. I have tried to help teenagers in this predicament. Nowadays there are kids on a variety of medications, including ADHD, mood meds, pot, booze, Red Bull, donuts, lack of decent nutrition, and sleep deprivation (iPhone 24/7). Parents have their hands full, and life is now more complex.


I’m also not fond of handing free money / benefits to people who choose to sit around stoned, watching Jerry Springer. Test welfare recipients.


indigo1955

There was no narrative that marijuana is entirely harmless. You jumped on that all by yourself. My approach was one of neutrality which assumes that a lot of people ARE going to alter their mental state-but that some practices are less harmful and the effects more well-known than others are. For instance, caffeine has been around a long time. So has marijuana. Bath salts and synthetic marijuana; not so much. You virtually jumped me like a troll insisting that I was trying to “sell something”. You had the opportunity not to do that as a reply. You could have posted your own opinion-independent of jumping on me and forcing an interpretation of my post. Marijuana is less harmless than many other other drugs. Heroin and meth are two viable examples. Now you are going off on your dislike of welfare recipients. Perhaps you could look toward some good things in life. I cringe when I have clients like you in psychotherapy or when I have someone “trolling” me like you. I personally honor others and their choices. It is sad when those choices are those which result in the death of children-but that is the choice they made. There is a drug treatment which involves choosing a less harmful substance (because some people are going to get high no matter what). I still would guide the person to choose marijuana over bath salts, synthetic marijuana, meth or heroin if they felt they HAD TO get high. Harm reduction (or HARM LESS) is an empirically researched treatment method that is regularly used for those who insist upon getting high. This is the basic theory behind methadone treatment.


OnTheOtherHand

I don’t think the studies so far provide the conclusive evidence you think they do. But just for the sake of argument, let’s assume you are totally correct in your assertions.


How do the effects of marijuana on the teenage brain compare to the effects of alcohol taken at similar levels? The negatives for each may not be the same but I would bet that the effects of regular alcohol consumption are at least as bad.


You can make the argument that just because one is bad doesn’t mean we should cave in to acceptance of the other but that argument has its flaws as well. Chief among them is that the hypocrisy of this dual standard breeds disrespect for the law among those who think rationally. It did so with many in my generation 40 years ago and has gotten progressively worse since then.


Then there is the issue of whether the negative effects of smoking pot outweigh the positive effects for those who can benefit from it. For decades, the anti-marijuana forces have managed to lie and deny about the medical benefits and even made if virtually impossible to conduct honest research on the subject until recently.


If you have known someone who has had to undergo major chemotherapy treatments and been courageous enough to flout the marijuana laws, you would also know how vastly better it is at countering the nasty side-effects of the treatments than anything doctors could legally prescribe. It is also an affordable alternative to very expensive drugs to treat other conditions.


Finally, lets look at who benefits from the laws against pot. Is it the few real addicts who are simply warehoused in jail instead of given the psychological treatment that at least has a chance of long-term success? Is it the casual users who end up with criminal records that make it difficult for them to ever be really productive citizens? Is it the taxpayers who pay for the large percentage of police, court and prison costs that are devoted to a “War on Drugs” that has targeted a relatively minor problem?


No, it is the people employed in the administration of “justice.” It is the new and highly profitable private prison industry which needs a constant flow of easy-to-handle “criminals” to maintain its profits and growth. It is the alcoholic beverage industry which would loose some market share to legal use of pot. It is pharmaceutical firms which provide very expensive drugs that would not be needed by many people if access to marijuana was easy and free. And it is the drug cartels that make huge profits providing a substance that could be easily grown by the average person and give them access to gullible people to create addicts to really dangerous drugs.


We try, with limited success, to outlaw alcohol access to those under 21. That system isn’t perfect but it may be the best we can do and it should be extended to marijuana for the same reasons.


ml1999

We can agree to disagree. I don’t think I said the studies are conclusive, but they all seem to be pointing in the same direction. It’s like we’re talking about the difference between extra virgin olive oil and grape oil. We know for a fact that unfiltered burning embers inhaled into the lungs causes cancer. If you know of studies which show that smoking pot increases brain power, I’m all ears.


I’ve never read anywhere that drinking booze can lower your IQ by ten percent, but I’m sure with heavy use anything is possible. You know, before we had these fancy studies, stoners I knew would often say, “Dude, let’s go kill some brain cells together”: They knew the effects.


If someone has cancer and wants to smoke a dobbie, have at i But in all these years the people who always make this comment have never had cancer, and I know of two people who have flat out LIED to their “pot doctor” to get their “medicinal card”, one an older dead head, the other a teenager who already was taking 3 to 4 prescribed medications. Would a doctir really prescribe a 5th on top of the others, as well as the booze of whatever else she partook of? Not safe, not cool.


You’re mixing your views on pot with harder street drugs.


And tell you what, you’ll make more headway with me if you agree that all welfare recipients have to take a drug test.


mikeGB

I agree that, just like alcohol and cigarettes, neither pot nor any other recreational drug should be legal for any minors. Spice is not a synthetic form of marijuana, as those chemicals are already illegal. But the race to stay ahead of laws introduces new chemical compounds, bringing new dangers. Nobody knows what is in these (except maybe the manufacturers), and there should be no expectation of any “quality control.”


This is definitely one of the negative consequences from the war on drugs to be added to gang involvement, incarceration and permanent branding of individuals, thefts, gun violence (because people can’t go to the police), and no-knock raids that sometimes go terribly wrong. Because of the war on drugs, we have a much more militarized police force. Prohibition of alcohol turned out to have disastrous consequences.

While regulation is not perfect, and treatment programs aren’t either, I believe they are preferable to the alternatives we do live with.


Four people that had the capacity to avoid this situation made compounded bad choices – the driver for smoking and driving impaired, the passengers for going along, and all involved that neither wore seat belts nor spoke out about driving without the toddler in a car or booster seat.


ml1999

I had a teenage stoner tell me that “we drive better when we’re stoned, because we drive slower”.


Stel1776

Nearly all of the claims that cannabis lowers IQ in heavy users who start young are based on just one study, Meier et al. 2012. This study found an IQ drop in 19 cannabis users who started in adolescence, continued usage into adulthood, and had 3 or more “dependency” diagnoses. There are a number of concerns regarding this study. The results have been brought into question in the same journal:


-Rogeberg O. Correlations between cannabis use and IQ change in the Dunedin cohort are consistent with confounding from socioeconomic status. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013.

-Daly M. Personality may explain the association between cannabis use and neuropsychological impairment. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013.

-Rogeberg O. Reply to Moffitt et al.: Causal inference from observational data remains difficult. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013.


In addition:


• The authors admitted that, “our data cannot definitively attest to whether this association is causal“.

• Users only abstained for 1 week. It can take longer for effects to completely wear off in the heaviest of users [Fried. 2005; Pope et al. 2001; Hooper et al. 2014].

• Abstention from using was not verified by testing (subjects could have still been under the influence).

• The amount and frequency of cannabis use is largely unknown, therefore “dose dependency” cannot be established.

• Mental illnesses such as major depression, anxiety, PTSD or traumatic brain injuries were not factored in. Often people self-medicate with cannabis.

• Out of 1,037 subjects there were only 19 in the group labeled most dependent since adolescence that saw the 8 point drop (not a large sample).

• There was not a statistically significant change in IQ for cannabis users who used less than 4 days per week.

• A statistically significant drop in testing scores was not correlated with adult onset usage, even in the most “dependent” group.


Regardless of the effect of heavy, adolescence onset, long-term cannabis use on IQ, we are not legalizing for teens. Studies have shown that legalized medical cannabis has not caused increased teen use [Choo et al. 2014; Lynne-Landsman et al. 2013; Harper et al. 2012; Anderson et al 2012], nor has decriminalization in Portugal [Hughes & Stevens. 2010].


Also keep in mind that there is ample evidence that cannabinoids are neuroprotective, even the U.S. government has a patent on them for protecting the brain, Patent #6630507 – Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants.


Regarding the Harvard/Northwestern study that found abnormalities:


Of course some media organizations conveniently leave out a few details of the study. For one the ‘abnormalities ‘ they found in the cannabis users were two areas of the brain with greater size and neural density. This usually is not a bad thing. The authors also never claimed that cannabis caused this, “Because this is a cross-sectional study, causation cannot be determined…”, or that it is ‘damage’. Also, the cannabis group (only 20 subjects) used much more alcohol and used more tobacco than the control group. They were in no way “casual users”, as the authors claimed, using an average of 11 joints per week. No meaningful conclusions either way can be drawn from this poorly conducted study.


If we are going to discuss popular substances which have an adverse effect on the brain, it would make much more sense to talk about alcohol, which has been proven to cause permanent brain damage. Cannabis on the other hand, despite decades of study has not been shown to cause brain damage in adult users. In fact, the U.S. government has a patent on the cannabinoids found in cannabis for protecting the brain:


“This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and HIV dementia.”

Patent 6630507 – Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants. Filing date: Apr 21, 1999.


The Northwester/Harvard study has already been criticized just days after release in the same journal:

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529/reply#content-block


More criticism:

http://liorpachter.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/does-researching-casual-marijuana-use-cause-brain-abnormalities/

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/why-medias-fearmongering-marijuana-effects-brain-faulty

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1293027/-Pot-Studies-Prof-Hans-Breiter-Liar-Fool-or-Paid-Hack


ml1999

I hope that this Harvard study prompts more study on this subject.


SamLouis

This is NOT the place for an asinine, pro-marijuana rant. Knock it off.


ml1999

Driving under the influence of marijuana accidents have gone up 300 percent, and are expected to continue to rise with time, due to increased use, and officers / departments testing for it.


mkaney

It wasn’t marijuana, but don’t let the facts get in the way of continuing a ridiculous narrative. And frankly, it doesn’t even matter what it was, because we should not be blaming the substance but the behavior. It could have been any number of things including prescription drugs, or watching a video on a cellphone, or arguing with someone in the car. When we pick one issue and pass laws related to that issue rather than the behavior, we wind up creating a self fulfilling prophecy.


ml1999

Maybe. But they didn’t eat Big Macs or drink Jamba Juice and then get into a fatal accident. They indulged in “spice”, and then had a horrific accident.


You do make good points… if you want to develop a device which makes the use of a cell phone in a moving car impossible, knock yourself out, I’m with you.


OnTheOtherHand

You do know that “spice,” despite being mislabeled synthetic marijuana, is very different and irrelevant to the argument about marijuana legalization, don’t you?


jarhead

OK now all you weed freaks , tell me theres no problem with smoking this shit , two , and maybe more DEAD because some tweaker decided to drive while doing this shit , I say lock him up for LIFE , still wont help , what a waste , makes me SICK.


OnTheOtherHand

You are justified in being angry at the people involved in this incident, but don’t blame “weed” because “weed” was not involved. “Spice” and other “synthetic marijuana” substances are not related to real marijuana and are significantly more dangerous. This is mostly due to the unregulated and untested methods used to make them and the gullibility of people who don’t know the difference. If you don’t understand the difference between various illegal drugs, please don’t make unjustified generalizations.


As for pot itself, there are dangers but they are minimal — less than those of alcohol in my opinion. I haven’t smoked pot in about 40 years but the damage done by an occasional beer or glass of wine hasn’t affected me too much. I don’t drive if I have had more than 1 drink/hour though.


Rambunctious

Spice? Please. Give me a break. I think maybe the grandmother is either very gullible or covering up. No one crashes their car because they smoked incense. High speeds and maybe high on something else caused this tragedy. Shockingly they sell crack pipes in smoke shops too. Just sayin.


OnTheOtherHand

“Spice” is a relatively new term for artificial drugs made specifically to technically dodge classification as an illegal drug by chemically altering an illegal one slightly. They are generally variations on methamphetamine.


OnTheOtherHand

Oops, I got my synthetic drugs mixed up. “Spice” can also refer to meth variations but usually refers to attempts to mimic marijuana (for the same reasons.) The attempts are generally not successful in that the effects are quite different but that doesn’t matter to people who just want to get high and gives “legal” cover to those who sell it.


Rambunctious

OTOH…Thanks for enlightening me. Well then my reaction was somewhat understandable when the story calls spice faux marijuana. If spice has that kind of an effect on someone then why is it available in a smoke shop? WTF?


Ishmael09p

Go to youtube and search “first hit of salvia” or “first hit of spice.” Watch the first three results. You’ll change your tune as to how dramatic the effects of this stuff can be.


ml1999

Wow. I watched the video titled “My Friend’s First Salvia Hit, 10x – CRAZY REACTION !!”. The second young Mother starts her ‘trip’ around 2:10.


Notice that there are young children in the area, and these young women are getting loaded, and entertaining men / boyfriends, and tripping?


Ishmael09p

Your run of the mill marijuana user is very likeley appreciative of the fact that it’s natural. He/she probably drinks alcohol as well, but would not dream of using herion or methamphetamine. Its those who WOULD use heroin or methamphetamine who are the habitual consumers of spice and bath salts.

It’s a whole different mindset.

The victims are the kids who see it under a sharpie and cardboard sign that says “Legal Weed.” This stuff is not labeled for consumption, so nobody ever would know that it wasn’t merely plant matter.


Ishmael09p

It’s scary stuff.


Stunned

I don’t think CHP said “what” the DUI involved did they? Just sayin’.


ml1999

The article clearly says that the driver smoked spice before the fatal accident.


r0y

Here’s how this works. In the article here on CCN, they have a little [KSBY] thing… that is the link to where CCN got their information.


Clicking that will take us to KSBY and we’ll see that in their article the grandmother is quoted:

The toddler’s paternal grandmother spoke to KSBY. “They were not taking a Sunday drive,” she said. “They were going to a smoke shop to get spice because they’re addicts. They were specifically going to Cambria to a new smoke shop to go get spice. I know that.”


Further reading shows us that the CHP have NOT stated what the drug was, only that CHP officers said they collected drug paraphernalia at the scene of the crash. and that The driver, Mengore, had minor injuries and was arrested on suspicion of felony DUI and manslaughter. The San Luis Obispo County Sheriff’s Office said he was released from their custody on Sunday.


So TL;DR version? The CHP did not say SPICE, the GRANDMOTHER did. The article did NOT clearly say the driver smoked anything AT ALL. The grandmother said they were addicts and drove to get spice. Even SHE did not say they were smoking it; that was INFERRED by you and others (possibly implied by the grandmother). English is confusing and we quite readily fill in the logic holes.


The Word

KSBY story states he smoked spice. Sometimes the family is the best source of information. I have been struggling with my 19 yo sons addiction to spice for over three years and counting. It has taken over his personality and life at times. Rehab minimizes the problem because its not one of the other drugs, but my son prefers this one above all. If I could grab his car away from him right now I would to stop this insanity. Whatever it is these kids are smoking it is nothing like weed or booze, it is much worse. They think it’s ok because it is available in a shop. Condolences to the families involved.