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San Luis Obispo conceals toxic waste release

December 16, 2011

Taken one week after the illegal discharge, pictures of cans and chemicals.

By KAREN VELIE

Eleven months after a San Luis Obispo city employee dumped toxic chemicals at a public facility, city officials have still not reported the illegal discharge to state authorities as required by law.

The failure to report the spill could leave the city with fines totaling more than $1 million.

“I would hate to imagine the fines that could result from this mess,” Doug Dowdin, a city storm water enforcement official says in a Feb. 2 email to fellow employees. “I am sure that I don’t have to stress the potential liability.”

In mid January 2011, an angry city employee told several subordinates to pour out cans of acetones (solvents), varnish, epoxy, creosote, enamel paint and latex paint. The chemicals were dumped on an asphalt parking lot that abuts a grassy area. Paint and chemicals swirled together creating areas thick with paint and a lower section that included open soil coated with acetones, varnishes and creosotes.

Waste water collections supervisor Bud Nance had told the staffers to remove the contents of the hazardous waste storage shed at the city corporation yard on Prado Road and empty cans in the yard.

“It is illegal to dispose of hazardous waste in the garbage, down storm drains, or onto the ground, according to the California’s Department of Resources, Recycling, and Recovery website. “Chemicals in illegally disposed hazardous waste can be released into the environment and contaminate our air, water, and possibly the food we eat.”

Banned substances include latex paints, oil based paints and solvents, according to the state’s website.

Several of the chemicals poured out in the yard can affect health especially if leached into the ground or water supply.

Nance refused to answer questions about the spill, hanging up during an interview.

Solvents, varnish and creosote seeped from cans to a strip of wood separating the asphalt from the soil. Picture taken one week after discharge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nance ordered the dumping because he was angry with the city, several employees including supervisors said. Nance’s supervisors had questioned him about his relationship with a female coworker. And, he was upset because the city had investigated and wrote up a friend, Ron Faria, for taking a city lawn mower, they said.

City emails show fellow employees including Dave Hix, a San Luis Obispo wastewater division manager, chastising Nance for his actions.

“Now look what you’ve done,” Hix said in a Feb. 2 email to Nance.

Nance said he thought the spill was “a bit blown out of proportion and this event did not need to bring out the Calvary and waste staff time,” in a Feb. 2 email. He rebuffed several requests by Dowden that he take hazardous waste training saying he “had no interest.”

Dowden replied that the training was required because the chemicals had been dumped.

“The training component I offered up is a mandatory BMP (best management practice) after an illicit discharge of this nature, not only under San Luis Obispo’s permit, but under the EPA, DTSC, RCRA and etcetera regulations, so if utilities still doesn’t want the training that is up to you,” Dowden said in a Feb. 3 email to Nance.

The state requires notice of accidental or deliberate spills of hazardous waste within 15 minutes. The purposeful release of hazardous waste including acetones, creosotes and enamel paints would need to be reported to the environmental protection agency regardless of the amount, according to the State Department of Toxic Substances Control.

Failure to properly report a hazardous chemical spill includes a $25,000 a day fine until the incident is properly reported, state officials said.

City officials have tried to keep mum about the spill. A string of emails show some San Luis Obispo city employees attempting to downplay or hide the problem.

“As a follow-up to the incident concerning the illicit discharge of hazardous waste (i.e., paint) into the environment near a wetland at the back of the corporation yard by staff in Utilities, Freddy, myself and Kerry Boyle can put together some training for your staff concerning the proper containment, labeling, storing, inspection policies, leak containment and management and disposal of hazardous materials asap, so that we can avoid future incidences like the one that just occurred at the corporation yard in the future,” Dowdin says in an email to Dave Hix and three others on Feb. 2.

Some city employees and management have taken a don’t tell or downplay stance, while others are concerned with the affect the spill and the cover-up could have on the city.

Nance and San Luis Obispo Fire Department Hazardous Materials Coordinator Kerry Boyle claim the cans were primarily latex paint and the spill was no big deal.

But, photos and emails make it clear that it was much more than latex paint.

One photo shows more than nine legible can labels; only one is latex paint. Other labels show epoxy, rust remover, stain and enamel paint.

City Attorney Christine Dietrick called several employees, including Boyle, and ordered them to either refer all calls about the issue to her or to only interview via email, after learning of the CalCoastNews investigation.

Employees said Dietrick was insistent that the dump consisted primarily of latex paint and was not large enough to mandate an official report.

However, several upper level employees such as Tim Girvin, the city’s chief building official, say otherwise in emails following the illicit discharge.

“This issue is clearly related to hazardous waste,” Girvin said in a Feb. 14 email.

Two weeks after the chemicals were poured out on the ground, city management asked San Luis Obispo Fire Department Hazardous Materials Coordinator Kerry Boyle to inspect the site. Information from employees and dates on photos show the chemicals had been soaking into the ground for about two weeks before the city called the inspector.

Boyle determined the release did not “meet a reporting threshold,” said Aaron LaBarre, supervising environmental health specialist for San Luis Obispo County Environmental Health Services.

But, state law requires that intentional spills of hazardous waste be reported.

Boyle said that it was not his job to report the spill.

“Public works poured out the chemicals, it is their responsibility to report it, not mine, Boyle said.

Pouring out chemicals on asphalt was “stupid,” Boyle told CalCoastNews. But, he claimed the spill was not large enough to make it to a local waterway that lies less than 200 feet from the dump site. He also said that he did not think the spill leached into the ground water.

“I said it was very poor judgment,” Boyle said. “You do not mix creosotes, varnishes and oil based paints. I am OK with the latex paint.”

Other city experts said otherwise.

“Acetones can pass through the asphalt and easily penetrate soil to reach ground water, said an employee who asked not to be named to protect his job.

Up close picture of opened upside down can.

Empty cans left strewn in the corporate yard.

Workers poured out a gallon of creosote in the corporate yard. Two weeks after the illegal discharge, workers poured cat litter on top of the chemicals.


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It is gratifying to see investigative reporting like this. Little else will stop official misconduct but shining a light on it.


The clear need for such reporting is illustrated by the fact that the individual ordering toxic chemicals intentionally dumped was not immediately fired by higher ups. The reports don’t reflect that this was an accident, or that the employee even denied that the dumping was intentional. The reports related are that the individual decided to create a toxic spill in retaliation for being counseled for inappropriate behavior on the job. Extra training on how to clean up toxic chemicals will not solve the problem for someone who intentionally dumps toxic waste as an act of vengeance. That’s about as useful as sending Lucrezia Borgia to training for poison antidotes.


Where is the action that we expect from the City Council, the Mayor, or the City Manger to end this kind of attack on the City’s residents’ health and safety?


0

I’ve had it with paying these dirt bags to lie to us rather than doing the job we pay them to do, that includes, City Attorney Christine Dietrick and San Luis Obispo Fire Department Hazardous Materials Coordinator Kerry Boyle.


I’m going to send this article and photo’s to every environmental agency in the state and light some pants on fire. If some heads have to roll to get these incompetent sycophants and their cronies off our payroll then so be it. This isn’t going to be swept under the rug. There has been enough of that.


I’VE HAD IT AND I”M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.


0

If people are so inclined to report it, perhaps these two sources would be a good start?


National Response Center for Toxic Spills (http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/nrchp.html)


EPA Tip Center (http://www.epa.gov/epahome/violations.htm)


0

Thank You for the easy link Mary. I just reported this to the Region 9 Division of the EPA. According to their site, what is described here was a blatant violation and the city of SLO violated just about every rule in the book when it comes to dealing with this sort of violation. I told them that the journalist Karen Velie wrote this article and they should contact her for the e-mails between the staff and the photo’s. I hope they make an example of SLO and fine them up the gazoo.


Something needs to be done about the cronyism at city hall and we deserve better than this.


0

Great reporting Always interesting when key people don’t want to talk to a reporter. Sounds to me like everyone is scrambling to take care of the problem. Thanks Karen! You come through again


0

Ah, come on, this spill is NOTHING to what would be forthcoming if the GOP gets their way regarding de-regulations so their top 1 percenters can even have more money! If you’re a Republican, I don’t know why you’re commenting upon this story because this situation will be the norm!


How about a hypothetical, since the fraternity here at CCN loves this way of explaining things! Let’s see, without regulation, let’s say a power-plant in California can save all the money it would cost to clean up their smokestack emissions, choosing instead to pump out vast quantities soot and nitrous oxide.


That toxic stew then moves in a plume eastward toward Arizona, New Mexico, etc. In a deregulated environment, someone other than the people who produce that plume end up paying for the cost of the plume in many different ways!


Without commonsense regulation, the people who create the toxic plume and who profit from the economic activities associated with it, get a free ride! Go GOP! It’s the coughing, red-eyed, phlegmy people who live downstream from the plume who absorb the medical costs from a myriad of different maladies!


The Republican efforts to gut regulations that prevent air pollution and workplace accidents, that prevent groundwater contamination and deaths from food poisoning, do not represent some kind of “free lunch.” Wholesale removal of just clean air regulation will mean that somebody, MAYBE YOU, will have to pay for it in lost years, lost health, or lost income.


But the mantra of “Take the money now and run” and leave it to future generations is the GOP mark!


0

Typoqueen, but wait! You have the Michele Bachman’s say that this will lower our oil prices in the USA! Her soap box rant of how gas prices when President Obama took office were around $1.79 per gallon, and now they’re close to $4.00 per gallon because of him! But, but, this pipeline will reduce our costs here at home, she says!


BS!!! This oil, like the rest of it here, goes upon the WORLD MARKET, HELLO? The only ones benefiting are the Republican backed fat cats, and of which was erroneously tied to the latest bill that would help the, god forbid, MIDDLE CLASS!


This is of course barring the many ramifications of a pipeline across the US to begin with.


0

I just heard a statement today from some spokesmen for the GOP, he that we need to the Keystone pipeline to help us not be so dependent on the middle east for oil and therefore lower the cost. I have explained in this forum that even the oil produced in this country goes into that world market but then they have their GOP leaders saying nonesense like this and they believe them. They don’t get it, it all gets mixed in the big pot of world oil.


” Michele Bachman’s say that this will lower our oil prices in the USA!”


Well, and she also thinks that we can ‘pray away the gay’ and that our founding fathers abolished slavery,,enough said. I love watching her interviewed,,that’s good TV.


0

Wow Tederingo, you have taken this simple, stupid toxic dumping and boosted it up to the Love Canal. As far as republicans wanting to take the money and run, I would rather take my money and run rather than give in to some freeloader in the white house to hand out to every lazy Tom, Dick, and Harry out there all the while paying some outrageous salary to some gummit employee to hand it out.


0

So now Obama’s a ‘freeloader’. Geez, so much hate. Sad and pathetic.


Speaking of hate, my family discussed this and my teen kids want to head up to No. County to let Lowes know what bigots they are, I am so proud of them. To those up in the no. county I wonder if any of you have seen any protesters up there.


0

As a business, Lowes has the right to advertise where they want. I don’t want some legislator dictating political correctness to the rest of us.


0

They have the right to advertise where they want, I agree 100%. Standup and Lowes have the right to be bigots, I’m in no way saying that anyone doesn’t have the right to be racists. But I also have the right and feel morally obligated to protest against such bigotry. I have the right to tell others that they are bigots. If I were going to shop at a store that supported bigoted actions then I would appreciate someone standing in front of the place letting me know about that.


0

BTW I don’t know anyone that wants legislators to dictate whether corp hacks like Lowes and people like standup can be bigots or not.


0

Standup,


We can only assume that you felt the same way when our godly President Bush started two fraudelent wars that has cost us 1.3 TRILLION. Then when he initiated in 2003 his Medicare part D that will cost us taxpayors ONE TRILLION over the next ten years. All of these acts were done WITHOUT ONE CENT OF FUNDING!!!


Remember his ruse of not putting the wars on the books? LOL Out of sight, out of mind? Duh. Guess he thought the economists were as ignorant as he was! NOT!


This is of course barring Bush’s 750 billion bailout of the banksters and Wall Street before his timely departure. How much has ALL of this cost us to date with interest? A mind boggling figure to say the least. Now, that is truly handing out “un-funded” money!


0

Sooner or later, every conversation on this site devolves into union bashing, so I might as well get started.


The reason no action has been taken with Nance is precisely the same as the County Roads Dept employee who still works there after stealing mowers and welders and stuff. See, because they are union members, the union will protect them with legal representation until the end of days. In Nance’s case, the City undoubtedly assessed that it’s easier to keep him around than to mount a fight to fire him.


If you think that’s how we ought to be spending our scant resources, then continue supporting the unions for govt employees.


0

racket,


You use ONE example by using Mr. Nance’s egregious act to disparage the union and what they represent overall for their workers. What about the hundreds of other City Union members within the ranks that work their job with no repercussions?


Let’s say you work for a company. If one of your fellow employees gets out of line like Mr. Nance did, do we disparage your whole company and say we shouldn’t support you anymore, nor buy your product? The bottom line is this act was done, regardless of whether the individual was fired or not. They are equal in both cases. Do the simple math.


The City should go ahead with all of it’s resources, no matter how long it takes, to get Mr. Lance fired. An example has to be made. Maybe the hierarchy of the City Officials can take a lessor bonus this year, or maybe a one time pay cut to support this action? I doubt it.


0

When the whole company covers it up, the YES, we disparage the whole company.


0

Cindy,


Wait, in the SM Police thread, you told everyone to ignore me! You don’t want to be a hypocrite, do you? Above all, you should practice what you preach for a change!


The cover up is at the top management that are NOT union! Therefore, to blame the union in this instance is ludicrous! GET IT?!


Within the same vein of your statement, tell us, when are you going to hold a “picket line” at French Hospital, because of their accounting errors that were brought forth in a previous thread? You must hold the whole company hostage, remember?


0

Obviously you completely missed the point racket made about the “City undoubtedly assessed that it’s (sic) easier to keep him around than to mount a fight to fire him.” That is the way with unions in the public sector, especially: job preservation. Keep that dues-paying member on the payroll no matter what. In the end, it’s incredibly difficult to fire any of them (for a non-union manager’s perspective) because of all the red tape and legal loopholes that exist with contracts and such.


You simply are just trying to throw bombs, but your aim is, as usual, way off.


0

rOy


I am going to make this as simple as possible. What part of the paragraph below from my post in question don’t you understand?


“The City should go ahead with all of it’s resources, no matter how long it takes, to get Mr. Lance fired. An example has to be made. Maybe the hierarchy of the City Officials can take a lessor bonus this year, or maybe a one time pay cut to support this action? I doubt it.”


I am for the firing of this individual post haste, union or not, and since this story is out in the open, and the city is held culpable, the city should bring Mr. Nance into the limelight and let the cards fall where they must!


Furthermore, by racket saying “City undoubtedly assessed that it’s easier to keep him around than to mount a fight to fire him.” is an “ASSUMPTION” that racket made! Understand? Conversly, if the same statement was directly from a city official, then it would an “ABSOLUTE!” Understand? At this time, racket’s statement is a personal “ASSUMPTION”. Okay? Good. We DO NOT know what is behind the scenes relative to the city in this case!


Once again, racket uses ONE example by using Mr. Nance’s egregious act for coming down upon unions. There’re hundreds of other City Union members within the ranks that work their job with no repercussions whatsoever. Understand? Your fraternity only bring up ONE EXAMPLE to support your otherwise weak arguements. Get it?


Please try your best to comprehend my posts next time to prevent this thread from being inundated with your trite rhetoric. Thank you.


0

Roy, anybody can be fired for cause, union or not. What unions fight for is unjust dismissal, or fraudulent cause. If what Karen describes actually happened (and none of us know for sure that it did), this guy could be fired for cause, and no union would dispute that.


0

slobody,


CORRECT! Union employees can be fired ONLY for just cause, and only after a hearing by a neutral arbitrator!!! Isn’t this just terrible to know that you cannot be fired unjustly like in the private sector with their archaic “employment at will” doctrine?!


There are too many in this forum that continue to shoot from the hip!


0

Shoot, it’s cloudy outside today. I was thinking that it might be Obama’s fault but I’ll bet it’s those d@mn unions why did they have to make the clouds come out today, I wanted to the beach?! Oh well, maybe ‘the Newt’ will get into the white house and get rid of the unions so they can take all the clouds away.


0

Typo-


You should come to the republican beach — it’s sunny and 72 here.


0

No thanks I’ll pass, the repub beach has had too many oil spills, makes your feet all dirty.


0

Good call.


Too, there’s a bunch of fat ol’ captains of industry in their speedos.


0

Typoqueen


The Satanic Unions, along with the DEMONcrats, put all those damn regulations in concerning air quality control, remember? Blame them, because our environment is acting in it’s normal conditions. If the GOP could only eliminate those regulations, then we would probably have sunny days 24/7/365 because the impurities in the air would probably not allow clouds to be produced anymore!


0

racket


Hot debate? No use debating someone who can’t the facts right. Nance is not in the union– he’s management. The union guy is the one who’s concerned about getting him training to protect the City (tax payers) from fines


0

bobcat,


Assuming that your statement is true, makes it even worse for the “private sector” analogies that a certain faction is promoting within this topic. Conversely, the firing protocols of of Union members that I and slobody have brought to light, at the dismay of the Union bashers, still holds true.


0

The city continues to hide abuse. This incident was just plain dumb by those involved. I wonder if it was the same guy who got his hand slapped for taking to used mower and selling it on ebay.


0

If the city gets fined, they should sue Nance to recover the damages. He also should have been fired on the spot due to damage of city property.. I’m also amazed that the staffers followed that clown’s orders. Who would think it was ok to dump chemicals on the ground in the parking lot? Clearly all the staffers at the corporate yard need to go through hazardous material training as well.


-1

“Who would think it was ok to dump chemicals on the ground in the parking lot?” That is the part that really irks me. We all know better than to do something like that. Even my 70 year old parents know better and when they broke up their home a few years ago, they asked me if I knew where to take all the old paint materials and chemicals that had been stored in their cellar and garage over the years and what it would cost to have them disposed of. Mind you they asked about it while we were loading a truck with other materials to take to the dump.


My point is that EVERYBODY KNOWS BETTER. It’s beyond me that the staff actually did something like that without a care for the environment or the people they serve. This is beyond disgraceful and to think they did it within 200 feet of a wetland! I might also mention that those were materials that belonged to the people to begin with and were not theirs to dispose of because someone had a tirade. I don’t ever want to hear how we have to pay top $$ to retain the “best of the best” again, this is just lip service and an excuse to stick their hands in our pockets. Just imagine what goes on that we don’t know about! They should all be terminated, every last one of them that was involved including the trusted overseers who turned a blind eye.


We can not trust gov to oversee gov, the money comes too easy to them. We need to privatize this stuff. Just my opinion and yes, I’m thoroughly disgusted with them.


0

Cindy,


Why of course, it should be privatized! Why didn’t we ALL think of that?!


Could it be that the “logical mind” says to itself that privatization reduces accountability? Or, that governments can be voted out, but private owners are insulated from the opinions of ordinary citizens and contractors are protected by legal agreements and under the table contracts?! Huh?


Wait a minute, under privatization, wouldn’t there be a danger that the DRIVE FOR PROFITS will lead to hiring unqualified and inadequately trained personnel, while the CEO, and his underlings, get those exorbitant bonus’ at the expense of the workers?


Wait a New York Minute, privatizing also weakens democracy by bypassing UNIONS (that scary word) and shifting power away from governments and nonprofit organizations, which can respond to “democratic political processes”.


THINK, instead, power moves to private corporations that serve only the interests of THEIR OWNERS and FINANCIERS! Recently, does the deregulated Wall Street and the sub-prime bankster loan debacle come to mind? Sure they do. :)


Crying out in vain over this incident to show that we need privatization in this sector is comical!


0

Take a look at what it cost us to get anything done through the public, “non profit” sector. I believe it was $3,500.00 per drop box to have them repainted recently. Privatizing is done through an annual contract and a fixed price to perform, if we are happy after a year we renew for another year. No unions, no crap and I bet they can do an equal if not better job for less than half of the current cost and without all the belly aching. One thing for certain, things like we have read here would never occur in the private sector and be swept under the rug.


0

“We can not trust gov to oversee gov, the money comes too easy to them. We need to privatize this stuff.”


You mean how the Blue Cross and Exxon oversees themselves? Greka Oil alone has spilled more oil (toxic crap) in SB and SLO than all of the SLO and SB counties have ever spilled in a lifetime, so hows that private oversight working? The guy in this article will probably be fired, Greka is still going and no doubt within the next 6 months we’ll hear about another spill by them, where’s the outrage about that?


“Privatizing is done through an annual contract and a fixed price to perform,”…. “things like we have read here would never occur in the private sector and be swept under the rug.”


Again, like Greka and also like Halliburton. Halliburton is still supplying our troops and working over there even after electrocuting some of the soldiers. Have you seen how much we pay them over there to do substandard work? We have private prisons making military supplies and the prisoners are being paid 23 cents an hour and there is NO over sight.


The govt. has a lot of issues and they need a good ‘cleaning’ but as TS said, we have some choice, it doesn’t seem like it but we do. At least we can speak out with our votes whereas in the private sector we have absolutely no choice.


0

Halliburton, Blue Cross and Exxon seems to be all you know about industry. Please try to get a clue and keep my comments in perspective rather than blowing privatizing of some road jobs into Halliburton or Exxon.


0

Well Cindy, you have me there, It does seem like I’ve brought up those companies more than others but there are others such as those thieving private banks. Those companies do come to mind first and since I have Blue Cross it’s only natural that I would bring it up. That’s besides the point though. So you agree with me then that privatization isn’t always such a good thing. BTW, I believe that Halliburton does build roads.


In all due respect, you get a little snarky when proven wrong.


0

You still don’t get it however I do apologize for getting “snarky”. I get irritated because those companies are like comparing apples to elephants and you constantly refer to them rather than keeping it in perspective. We aren’t here to argue about Halliburton, Exxon, Blue Cross or the Banks. These are mega corporations and have nothing to do with this discussion or the idea of contracting some of our public work needs out to local sources who possess the expertise to perform them.


Yes I agree they (the aforementioned Corps) are BIG CORPORATE PIGS.


0

I was responding to this statement made by you:


“We can not trust gov to oversee gov, the money comes too easy to them. We need to privatize this stuff.”


I was giving you examples that everyone is familiar with that demonstrates how our govt. has allowed privatization to almost destroy our country. Enough is enough. This is one screw-up, until we have robots running things there will be more screw-ups. You don’t think that a private company would ever do something like this? I have nothing against small companies being contracted to do some govt. jobs and the do now but don’t expand privatization anymore.


Fix the govt. we have, no more privatization.


0

Cindy,


It has been shown that you’re one of many that makes “assertions” along with relying upon “hearsay” to try and substantiate your arguments. In your post above, you have not let us down in this respect.


Where do we find the absolute evidence for all of your claims in your post?!


For entertainment purposes, I will address just one of your ASSERTIONS, to wit: “Privatizing is done through an annual contract and a fixed price to perform, if we are happy after a year we renew for another year.”


Never heard of this one before! Tell us, what business in their right mind is only going to sign on for only a year, especially after the up-front costs of doing said business and the running thereof? lol It’s like the new Hamburger Habit in SLO only signing a lease for one year after they spent a huge amount of money to build their enterprise.


Then, when the one year lease is up, the owner of the building has the option to bail, or could have a better offer and leave Hamburger Habit blowing in the wind! No Cindy, in business they sign the longest term lease that they can. Sorry, your ruse doesn’t work in this case. Business 101.


Oh, and what happens in a years time if the private business is not performing well? Is there another business that will be ready EXACTLY on the 366th day at 12:01 am? :(…


Your quest is to provide us with empirical evidence that has been proven trustworthy and without any doubt whatsoever on your assertions made within your post. If you can’t, then what you puff in your post, is nothing but unadulterated and unubstantiated ASSERTIONS!


0

Well Ted, I guess you forgot that the infrastructure and equipment is already sitting there. No big set up expense necessary. All it takes is bidding the contract and taking over. What else are we going to do with our work yard, out buildings and all our equipment? No reason not to include it with the contract as lease equipment. But of course you wouldn’t think of anything as sensible as that, partly because you couldn’t admire yourself while you blow off all your clever but irrelevant discourse.


0

Cindy, Cindy, Cindy, tsk, tsk, shame on you!


Your silence upon your other claims is deafening!!! Here, let me make clear for you too, like I had to do for ol’ rOy, okay? In your continued rants against Unions in the post in question, you conveniently forgot to address those other “pesky” assertions that you made! :(


“I believe it was $3,500.00 per drop box to have them repainted recently.”


^ Where is your empirical evidence to prove this claim?


“No unions, no crap and I bet they can do an equal if not better job for less than half of the current cost and without all the belly aching.”


^ Where is your empirical evidence to prove this claim?


“One thing for certain, things like we have read here would never occur in the private sector and be swept under the rug.”


^ Where is your empirical evidence to prove this claim?


Last but not least, you forgot to mention your “yearly” proposition of the private sector taking over the City Yard even though it has it’s “infrastructure!”!


No, no, you have to be responsible for everything you say, therefore address your premise of operating only for a year at a time which goes directly against Business 101 as I’ ve shown you.


Admiring myself? LOL Cindy, this is only a “code” for you not being able to respond in kind in a logical and rational manner. You’re funny. :)


0

More focus on the article and facts of the story please and less attention about other folk posting here. some comments have been deleted .

?????s


0

Cindy,


In my post above directed towards you, I am so sorry that I actually put you on the spot, AGAIN, and requested that you actually support your “assertions” to become actual fact. Once again, your silence upon this request remains deafening.


Your unwarranted rant against Unions ad infinitum, in part relative to this thread, is failing miserably because you fail to give us specific empirical facts to eliminate your myriad of “personal assertions!”


May I suggest that you do your homework the next time with base line facts, instead of basing your argument upon “assertions”, “hearsay”, and forever trying in vain to disparage me with your trite comments that continually go wanting to the point of ad nauseam.


We await a new Cindy that bases her arguments upon empirical facts, praise Jesus!


0

Troll much?


Yes, corporations are “insulated” from opinions of ordinary citizens. TRUE! They don’t care if NO ONE BUYS what they are selling! GOOD POINT, Mr. Troll!


Drive for profits will lead to hiring unqualified and inadequately trained personnel. TRUE! That’s how all the most successful companies operate! With under-performing employees who lack any training! Another GOOD POINT, Mr. Troll!


Privatizing weakens democracy and bypasses unions. TRUE, again! Amazing! YES, there has never been any kind of Union in the private sector. More GOOD POINTS, Mr. Troll!


Comical, indeed! You showed us!


0

They don’t care if NO ONE BUYS what they are selling! GOOD POINT,”


Oh what a load of BS. I don’t like PG&E, where am I going to get power, I have NO choice? I HATE and I mean HATE Blue Cross but I need insurance and I can only afford BC, the only other choice I have is to not be insured, I’m already underinsured even with them. Where was the oversight when some guy behind a desk with BC that wasn’t a doc decided that he wanted me to have a surgery against my docs advise or else continue paying three times more than I should be paying? Your big corps have MORE power than the govt., they own the govt.. Our govt. is becoming a privatized govt..


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rOy,


Your post is non-sensical and chid like. We can only assume that you hold this post in high esteem, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted it, which worries me. :(


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We do NOT need privatization. We need our public leaders to be held accountable for doing their jobs.

Privatization could only lead to more smoke and mirrors, and red tape.


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CalCoastOutrage,


CORRECT! Look what privatization and de-regulatoni of the Banks and Wall Street gave us!


In a governement ELECTED setting, at least they have to be held accountable, and they can be voted out if need be! There would also be no DRIVE FOR PROFITS like in the private sector, at the citizens expense, because they would be subject to the “democratic political processes!”.


Why is this concept so hard for the Cindy’s of the world to comprehend? My Christian God only knows. :(


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2 sides to every story, and how do you know he was in the wrong? were you there? or did you just read what was written above? if this website said the sky was falling i bet you would believe it along with the 7 others who comment on everything…


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I suppose if Velie had pix of the sky crashing down, I’d be inclined to believe it.


What’s yer point?


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Right, CCN just made it up, the photo’s, the e-mails, they just made this one up, unlike every other story that has always panned out to be true. Even when the police denied the story about the Dystiny Meyers video, it turned out to be TRUE. I haven’t seen any spin here like I have at our local Tribune, in fact without CCN we wouldn’t have a clue about the truth.


BTW, Has anyone reported the fact that there was no shot out in SM yet? Maybe CCN just made that up and I shouldn’t believe it? The facts are the facts, stop trying to pick and choose what you do and don’t like.


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There are NEVER just two (2) sides to every story! There are THREE (3)!

1) Yours.

2) Theirs.

3) the Truth.


That’s usually how it goes.


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Typical conservative action and reaction:

” I’ll do whatever the heck I please and who gives a hoo-hah about consequences. Anybody that says different is a liberal whiner”.


Then these egotists and bullies get caught, and all they do is cry !


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Do you think liberalism defines you?


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Not sure . Those are pretty loose definitions, and the old left/right paradigm from 18th century France is rather archaic.

In taking the political compass analysis, my results place near Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, and Gandhi….what they term as “libertarian left”.


Take the analysis yourself at http://www.politicalcompass.org/ and see where you line up, and what historical figures you are most in agreement with.


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Heh, I got:

Economic Left/Right: 4.50 (about as right as Angela Merkel)

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87 (about as neutral as you can be – near 0)


Though many, if not all, of the questions seemed loaded. Guess it might be hard not to be.


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Yeah, I’ve seen you loaded before.


Where;s that winky face smiley emoticon when you need it !


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So, I finally played along and took the “test”; Economic Left/Right: -7.88, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.77, very solidly in the “left” hand column, pretty close to one of the only lefties they had listed, Ghandi, and no, I do not feel anywhere close to Ghandi other than to say that I admire what he was able to accomplish and that he it without violence.


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I love the definitions of liberalism. Nothing wrong with that.


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Now that is some reporting…


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