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Undocumented children are part of our nation and need your support

March 2, 2017

OPINION by ANDREA DEVITT

In 2011, Jerry Brown signed the Dream Act, which made California the first state in our nation to allow undocumented students to apply for and receive state-administered college financial aid. This was groundbreaking legislation.

Sadly, the applications to the California Dream Act are down more than 60 percent this year compared with last year. As of Friday, there are only 17,819 applications compared with 46,731 last year, according to Patti Colston, communications manager for the California Student Aid Commission.

State leaders believe that many immigrant students may not be applying due to President Donald Trump’s fear-mongering statements about possible deportations.

This also comes at a time when California needs more college graduates. A recent study released by the PPIC indicates if current trends continue, California will fall short of 1.1 million college graduates by 2030.

During these unsettling times it is important to remember Hillary Clinton’s speech at the 1996 Democratic Convention:

“It Takes a Village to Raise a Child.” Mrs. Clinton said. “That change is certain but progress is not. Progress depends on the choices we make today for tomorrow.”

Our nation has changed significantly over the last 21 years. Like Mrs. Clinton, I believe in the common good and I believe we are all responsible for ensuring that all children are raised in a nation that doesn’t just talk about family values, but acts in ways that value families.

Undocumented immigrant children, like all children, are part of our nation. Please encourage all high school seniors and all college students to apply for financial aid by March 2, 2017; California needs more college graduates. For more information, contact the state aid commission at 916-464-8271, or the California Department of Education at 916-323-6398.


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Andrea, that took guts! And GrayGranny2010, you too!


In a community that shows it contempt towards anyone who is not “normal” or “American” or is “accused” your opinions are not only refreshing but much needed. These kids, these “Dreamers”, have every right to better themselves, not only for their betterment but of that of their communities. By no fault of their own they’re here, why not give them the opportunity to achieve something we all take for granted, an education. How can that hurt any of us? No, we’ll drive ’em underground, maybe deport them to a country that isn’t really their’s and then make REAL criminals out of ’em when they decide to return HOME!


SLO is the epitome of intolerance and this subject brings it out like no other. These kids are not CRIMINALS, they did nothing wrong and this community would arrest and deport them anyway. What’s the cost of that? Not only in money but how that reflects on a country born, bred and built on immigrants? More to the point of money, it costs the American taxpayer over $12,000.00 to deport a person, each time they’re deported! Combine that with these kids not being criminals (intent is the test of criminality) and this is not only inhumane it makes no fiscal sense at all!


I love this country but I’m having a hard time with this new type of fiscally driven “morals” and “legalism” especially when it only applies to those who can’t afford to participate…


Man, combine being an undocumented person and being Latino a child matching that description doesn’t stand a chance in SLO…


-Remember Andrew Holland-


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Wait a minute…back up the deportation paddy wagon….we are talking UNDOCUMENTED children…they are here ILLEGALLY because their parents decided to break the law.

this isn’t a dream, it’s become a nightmare.

LEGAL immigration is the key…anything less remains a crime.


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Should we apply that to American’s? You know, when the parents are convicted of a crime should their children be as well? Why not? There no less culpable and under our Constitution there’s this little pesky thing call “Equal Protection Under Law”! Remember that? And until someone is proved in a court of law as an “illegal immigrant” they are by law suppose to be provided that same protection. Remember that?


But in all things alt-right there seems to be a alt-constitution as well. One they can cherry pick to mean what ever is convenient to their position and or point and devoid (like that word 2much[BS]?) of what the law intends.


What I see here is a bunch of xenophobia’s (Hey,2much[BS], DUCK!]) pattin’ each other on the butt when they score an alt-right point or two. I swear there’s a dark dank mamma’s basement somewhere in SLO where all of you converge and regurgitate this feces (that was a trifecta there 2much[BS]) just to manducate it again… (Sorry 2much[BS]! Couldn’t help myself)


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Yes…to ALL undocumented Americans. The constitution, particularly the 14th amendment that provides for proper immigration and naturalization…it’s not rocket science..


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Question:

“why not give them the opportunity to achieve something we all take for granted, an education. How can that hurt any of us?”


Answer:

Financially!


Wake up “Fan”. As you state it costs $12,000 to deport, it costs US over $100,000 for a “Free” college education. Why aren’t you advocating for these folks to go through the process of becoming “Legal” and not just living off the American People illegally?


BTW… “Epitome”??? Really? Who talks like that?


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“I love this country but I’m having a hard time with this new type of fiscally driven “morals” and “legalism” especially when it only applies to those who can’t afford to participate… “

It is not new, it is called fiscal responsibility. You don’t hear all of this because people do not want to help others, even illegals, but you are hearing this because a small amount of people can still do math and come to logical conclusions. Others either ignore this or cannot do the simple math, and feel like their passions for helping others is being attacked. They are not. Instead, look at this as others wanting to make sure there is something to help (give) in the future, and is sustainable.


Sustainability: a great buzz-word until it’s applied to financial matters (like public pay, education, and assistance).


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2much(BS) and (scared)rOy


“After the appropriate tuition rate is determined the next question will be how to pay for it. “DACA recipients do not fit into any of the U.S. Department of Education’s categories for eligible noncitizens, and are currently ineligible to receive federal financial aid. They are also ineligible for most state financial aid programs. Therefore, most DACA students must explore other sources for outside funding.” – NASFAA


https://www.nasfaa.org/news-item/1899/Deferred_Action_for_Dreamers_Advising_DACA_Students_About_Affording_College


Epitone? I speak and write like that, that’s who! Get used to it or just don’t bother reading my posts! Thank you so very much, sport!


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OOPS! Did I spoil the party?


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No, you just failed to read. DACA ≠ DREAM act. Sorry, everyone else was discussing the original op-ed piece on the DREAM act and subsequent reduction in the number of applicants.


Hey, but thanks for the link to an ancillary-related topic, I’m sure someone who gets bored with the original discussion may find it an interesting read. I did not; it read like a presser, and not an actual article with much thought.


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Here, a pretty picture for you to help you distinguish the two. They are similar in intent; however, it does not change the fact that “the Dream Act, which made California the first state in our nation to allow undocumented students to apply for and receive state-administered college financial aid.” – the point I (and others) have an issue with, that you apparently missed completely prior to changing the discussion.


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States Rights, right? But the topic is a national one, right? The numbers you were throwin’ around were national numbers and now you’re backin’ off to say you were just speakin’ about California? Weak as your arguments have been (scared)rOy…


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I would rather have my tax dollars spent on any child that I legally reside and/or work here. There is not enough money to pay for illegal immigrants and legal immigrants, legal residents and citizens.


Since when should we put persons whom emigrated legally or were naturalized or born citizens to the back of the line? Do you really believe that there is more money than citizens are applying for? Really?


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Too bad. Your tax money will be spent on a wall to keep green card holders, who arrived by plane and overstayed. Mexico will not be paying for it. Better be one heck of a tall wall.


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Have you seen the picture of the Mexican Official sitting atop the 30 foot wall that he scaled in about a minute? If I knew how to post pictures here I would post it just to scare the shit out of all the alt-right/fact-BS-ScaredShitlessCrew here on CCN!!!


I think he was armed with one of those deadly ass burritos y’all love… You know, chorizo, egg, cheese and Bull Shit!


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Andrea, you pay for them. I would rather my tax dollars help legal citizens and their kids first. Stupid snowflakes.


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The only real human solution that protects and preserves the rights of our citizens is to revise (as in completely revise) our immigration laws. If they are good people, they can come in as our forefathers did. THEN they can apply for aid and taxpayer funded benefits. Otherwise, we have issues.


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” If they are good people, they can come in as our forefathers did.”


You didn’t!

You couldn’t have!

You DID!

You fuckin’ went THERE!


So according to our forefathers way of taking this country these KIDS should murder, pillage, spread infectious disease, rape and put all of you on reservations on fuckin’ Pluto! Right?!!!


Shit! I don’t need to say nothin’ more…


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Pluto’s too close…


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Sorry Ms. Socialist. It takes a FAMILY to raise a child. They left their villages precisely because the villages failed them. Now they want us to take care of them. And while it may seem noble to do so… our own citizens have needs that aren’t being filled. So I concur with Jorge Estrada below. Are these funds available to our CITIZEN children who need them?


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At this very moment, the State legislature is cutting funding for California citizens to attend California universities while maintaining funds for non citizens to attend.


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I will surmise that the undocumented students are in the US because their undocumented families brought them here. I will also surmise that the undocumented families are working and paying federal and state taxes, through the payroll deduction process, and they may or may not be using false or duplicate social security numbers. A percent of the tax dollars withheld from the undocumented employees’ pay checks, just like documented employees, helps fund college financial aid grants for ALL of our students, not just undocumented students.


It saddens me to know that my country has become so callused and has a developed such a lack of compassion for those that were not fortunate enough to be born in such a great country as the US.


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In our day, graygranny a village did raise children, but it had nothing to do with government confiscating money from one family and giving it to other families.


Villages raising children meant all of the adults looked out for the well being of the child and also reported when the child stepped out of line – and weren’t afraid to discipline that child themselves if need be.


In Hillary’s world, government is the village. I find that disgusting and it’s not due to lack of compassion for children.


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Undocumented workers are paying some taxes, but usually don’t file federal or state income tax or only report part of their earnings on Federal/State income tax so that they receive rebates (many claim extra child credits for 4 or 5 children they don’t have).


Don’t even suggest that they pay their own way; they don’t. If the IRS started checking their tax returns, they would be voluntarily exiting the US. False ID, false social security numbers, falsified tax returns, falsified drivers licenses, etc. This is how they survive with an average 5th grade education in the US.


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Your first paragraph is correct. The conclusions in your second paragraph are only correct in terms of state government programs and even then only partially. In order to work, these people often do use phony SS numbers. And they do use credits and exemptions to minimize or eliminate federal INCOME taxes.


However, they still have Social Security and Medicare taxes deducted from their pay. Since the numbers given are either phony or duplicates of someone else’s legitimate SS#, the undocumented workers are not given credit in the system for paying these taxes and can’t receive the benefits associated with them down the line. In effect, they are subsidizing the Social Security and Medicare system.


In terms of state income taxes, they probably pay little or nothing and may get benefits exceeding what they pay. However, they do pay sales taxes just like everyone else. At blue collar wages, chances are that you are paying more sales tax than state income tax each year. So it isn’t true that they aren’t paying a moderate amount into the state and local general funds either. They may be a collective net loss to the state, but it isn’t a big one as many people think/claim. Making them (at least the non-criminal element) into legal citizens would change that in short order.


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You forget the people who work off the books, for cash at the end of the day.

They don’t pay income taxes at all, however, not all these scofflaws are illegals, my neighbor does this, too. He’s not illegal, he’s PWT born in Arkansas.

And some employers screw over the illegals and underpay them or not at all, as there isn’t much that can be done about it.

It would be best for all concerned if the idiots in Washington could come up with a system that can get everyone on the right side of the law, make citizens out of these scofflaws and force them to pay ALL the taxes they owe, just like true citizens are required to do.

Do that and many will probably go back home on their own.


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Here’s an idea, have the Clinton Foundation pay for their education. They certainly have the funds! Her real mantra is it takes a village to fund a foundation…just ask any Hatian


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Unfortunately now that Hillary is out of power, donations to the “Clinton Foundation” have decreased so rapidly that Chelsea may have to scale back from a Gulfstream 650 to a G4.


I don’t think they’ll have any money left for the poor children after paying their expenses.


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All the while your potus uses Air Force One as his personal shuttle to “working weekends” in Mar-a-Lago (that would be in Florida 2much[BS]).


To date that has cost about $10,000,000.00 dollars to us real American Patriots.


You won, get off the “Lock Her Up” BS and bask in your short lived bravado (OOOOOO! I’m gonna catch hell for that one)…


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I’d like to know when does this end? How many countries children are we to take care of?


Isn’t this creating more of a status-quo with failed governments and their associated oligarchies? They don’t want a prosperous middle class to challenge them. It is easier for them to ship them off to the US to avoid troublesome and valid questions to their leadership.


Also, the rule is that you get more of what is rewarded so where are the unlimited amount of funds going to appear from?


Seriously, it is an honest question on my part and I’ve never heard a good answer from those who support this sort of thing.


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How many countries do we take care of militarily? Over 900 from what I’ve read. And do they pay us back or foot any of the bill? Don’t take care of a child not here from anything they’ve done wrong while taking care of a bunch of nations on your dime and you bitch about the kids? No wonder wars are the current vogue…


-Remember Andrew Holland-


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Many countries do pay for US forces to be stationed on their soil. Japan and South Korea are two that come to mind. There are many others but I expect you haven’t done any real research on this and are just parroting someone else’s talking points.


Why don’t you blame the parents who performed the ILLEGAL act in the first place? Way to avoid the real question here.


If there was an unlimited amount of funds available I would be open to DREAMERS doing this. Problem is, we just don’t live in that fantasy world.


Thanks for proving my point that you don’t have any real answer other than redirection.


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I have done my research, pi-on…


You’ve named two countries that are considered first-world (industrialized) countries and they still do not pay their fair share (I can’t believe I’m saying this but in this area, I agree with your potus). Japan pays about 75% of the cost, Germany about 30%, Italy about 40% and S. Korea about 40%. No matter the amount they pay, either in cash or bilateral trade agreements, third world or otherwise, we still shell out +-$160,000,000,000.00 a year! In Cuba we pay them for the privilege of having a base at Guantánamo Bay (I think I’ve read they return the $2,000.00 year “lease”). And if one American Soldier is killed protecting whatever countries best interest they’ll never pay enough! Got that?!!! and can you imagine what this country could do with the extra cash if we didn’t pay out the nose to be the new Imperialistic bully on the block!


I do blame the parents, idiot! But in doing so I will not make their children accomplices in their crime! It’s like walking into your home and arresting your two-year-old for being an accomplice to your to your ignorance (if there was such a law) and then sending them to some country they don’t know, don’t make sense and wouldn’t be legal.


You do your research and then we’ll have a meaningful and informed conversation…


-Remember Andrew Holland-


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I have to step back and apologize…


I did not say “pay their fair share” as I should have… That happens with me sometimes and I should read my posts once and awhile before publishing them and do the necessary editing before sticking my foot deep into my mouth!


I apologize…


-Remember Andrew Holland-


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Still not addressing the issues I raised, just want to talk about military expenditures and such which In a sense is a valid point but doesn’t address my questions.


You don’t seem to get it that the parents PUT their kids in that situation. Idiot? I’m not the one redirecting from the issue at hand.


You are not addressing root causes nor are you suggesting any long term solutions other than telling people to suck it up even if people can’t afford higher taxes.


My guess is that you really don’t pay any taxes-your refund is far more than you put in like too many in this country.


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Apologize about the tax thing. That was wrong of me to write.


Still, one of my main questions is HOW to PAY for this PROGRAM.


Not opposed to education just that there only a finite set of funds available for this sort of thing. Even if you gutted the military it wouldn’t work. Want to know why I am writing this? Obama did just that and still had trillion+ dollar deficits (spend more than you take in) with the exception of his last year in office.


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Read my latest post…


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Now you’re insinuating I’m the criminal?


“My guess is that you really don’t pay any taxes, your refund is far more than you put in like too many in this country.”


I pay taxes and I pay what the law say I should, nothing more and surely nothing less!


The article doesn’t address the root cause, idiot! Why should I? But I will…


The root cause is parents that do come here illegally and they bring their children. So, stop the parents and the kids won’t follow, right? How do we do that? By securing or borders, something I’m not opposed to (other than building a ridiculous wall that will only slow those down who are intent on getting here). How could we do that? How ’bout we bring half the troops home that are stationed overseas, take them off active status but subject to recall to active duty if needed, and put them to work for DHS? Some would fill needs in intelligence, others in administration but the brunt of them would be trained in INS positions with the majority of those being Border Patrol Agents.


Close some of those bases in S. Korea (I think we have 33 there), a couple in Japan (23 there?). a few in Germany (21 there?) and all of those in the Middle East! The savings in just logistical costs alone would probably pay the salaries of all those “transferred” to DHS.


These kids are here through no fault of their own and shouldn’t be treated as criminals! Now it appears that they are not even getting their right to due process…


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/322129-dreamer-detained-after-speaking-at-press-conference-to-be


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Never implied that you were a criminal. I don’t know you, I wouldn’t say that about anyone I didn’t have specific information on.


I agree that taxpayers should pay what they owe and not a penny more-no argument from me about that. Again, that comment was utterly wrong for me to say. I deserve my lumps for that.


Disagree that closing down the bases would provide the revenue needed for the DREAM educational program and a larger DHS presence. By the way, closing the bases would create a geopolitical imbalance that would tilt the favor toward ChiComs or Russian influence which is unfavorable to all free people everywhere.


Your stated root cause isn’t really a root cause-its a symptom resulting from corrupt oligarchical nation-states that use the U.S. immigration system as a means to avoid political change and reform. Increasing the DHS is a band-aid; for real improvement there needs to be political, economic, environmental, and social reform in said corrupt nation-states. I’m looking at the big-picture here, not in tear-jerk, status-quo, kick the can down the road emotional appeals that don’t resolve anything.


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Look, I’m not a geo-political expert, all I did was throw out an idea.


As far as “kicking a can down the road” approach’s that don’t resolve anything? Sounds a lot like what’s goin’ on now and has been for some time. We’ve been trying to influence countries around the world where ” there needs to be political, economic, environmental, and social reform in said corrupt nation-states” and where has that gotten us? No frickin’ where and in some case, the Middle-East, it has put us at a greater risk.


Free people everywhere? Where would that be, the everywhere? It ain’t here and if you think so I would suggest you take a look at what happened to Andrew Holland on the local level and the current attitude nationally of “Guilty Until Proven Innocent” and the suspension of habeas corpus in this country. Freedom starts with supporting, enforcing and sustaining our Constitutional Rights, something which has been under attack for a long, long time.


I have a question; are the “Dreamers” criminasl in your opinion? If so, why? If not, why would you treat them as such?


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LARamsFan: I have a question; are the “Dreamers” criminals in your opinion? If so, why? If not, why would you treat them as such?


I’ll answer your question with a question of my own:


Should Hurst Financial and the Gearharts keep their ill gotten gains for the sake of their children?


You do know that their family members who had nothing to do with their nefarious activities publicly and privately suffered throughout that situation.


Therefore, to get back to your question, the children’s suffering is due to the parents actions, not something that is on the children alone. You claim to understand the parents criminality yet can’t understand that the parents and children do suffer in similar criminal situations.


I know you’ll say I’m heartless but you know what? If it stops this type of behavior then that is the price of having a society that is based on law and order. Is the law perfect? Absolutely not-but it is better than the alternative.


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Hey Ram Fan, securing the border is a mission not a job, so I don’t feel a civilian police force like the border patrol can get it done.

We have thousands of highly trained, motivated and mission oriented soldiers being mustered out of the military with few prospects, I say offer them a position in this new military arm that will be tasked with securing our borders.

Offer the soldiers like a 5-10-year additional stint in border security to ease them back into civilian life.

Use the border patrol to do civilian oversight and to do all the paperwork.

And I do think a wall is appropriate, but there are areas where you can’t put a wall in, so use technology and this new military arm to patrol those areas.

I believe this is needed not to keep out some poor peasant from Guatemala escaping a war or abject poverty, those people are not a concern for me.

What I feel needs to be stopped is the 24/7, 365-days a year onslaught of drugs being smuggled across the border, carried across by illegals forced to be mules, flown over the border, tunnels underneath, submarines in Florida and Panga boats on the West Coast.

It’s gotten to the point where there is a severe heroin epidemic (plus meth, pills and a resurgence of cocaine) that isn’t just a big city problem.

No, the heroin epidemic is now in Main Street America and growing worse all the time. Mexico is unable or maybe unwilling to put a stop to the drug cartels.

This dope is killing the users, and the money is corrupting the dealers — including US citizens — who’d rather sell poison than get a job and work, and it’s corrupting Mexico, both the government and the people, who are being forced into slavery to tend the poppy fields and meth labs.

It’s got to stop.

As for the Dream Act, correct me if I’m wrong, a kid from overseas can get a student visa and attend a UC, or Cal State college here but has to pay inflated out-of-state tuition rates, but if a kid came here illegally and signs up under this Dream Act, they get student aid, which comes out of the taxes that we all pay? Is that about it?


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Are these financial aid contacts good for documented children too? My hope is that every student apply for this aid. If there is limited funds, it will be interesting to learn how our tax money is prioritized.


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Let’s hope ICE gets a hold of the database with the names and addresses of the applicants and does a little door to door knocking!


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